Mr. JENNER. You said you had the impression as you sat there in Japan that here was a man whom you felt wanted to be on the winning side. Mr. THORNLEY. Yes. Mr. JENNER. What impression did you have as to why? Did you, for example, have the impression that he felt that his life had been such that he had been deprived of the opportunity to be on a good side? Mr. THORNLEY. No. Mr. JENNER. That he conceived to be the leading side? Mr. THORNLEY. No. I had a definite impression of why. Mr. JENNER. All right. Mr. THORNLEY. I think it is a mistake that many people make, and I think it is a mistake he shared, and that is: he looked upon, not only Marxists make this mistake, but he looked upon history as God. He looked upon the eyes of future people as some kind of tribunal, and he wanted to be on the winning side so that 10,000 years from now people would look in the history books and say, "Well, this man was ahead of his time. This man was"--he wanted to be looked back upon with honor by future generations. It was, I think, a substitute, in his case, for traditional religion. The eyes of the future became what to another man would be the eyes of God, or perhaps to yet another man the eyes of his own conscience. Mr. JENNER. So it wasn't in the prosaic sense of merely wanting to be on the "winning side." Mr. THORNLEY. No. Mr. JENNER. When things developed---- Mr. THORNLEY. No; I don't think he expected things to develop within his lifetime. I am sure that he didn't. He just wanted to be on the winning side for all eternity. Mr. JENNER. You had the impression that that was in terms of selflessness? That he thought also in terms that Lee Harvey Oswald would be associated with this forward thinking? Mr. THORNLEY. Right. He was concerned with his image in history and I do think that is why he chose once again, once again why he chose the particular method he chose and did it in the way he did. It got him in the newspapers. It did broadcast his name out. I think he probably expected the Russians to accept him on a much higher--in a much higher capacity than they did. I think he expected them to, in his own dreams, to invite him to take a position in their government, possibly as a technician, and I think he then felt that he could go out into the world, into the Communist world and distinguish himself and work his way up into the party, perhaps. He was definitely---- Mr. JENNER. Did it have to be the Communist world or could it be any world that he saw projected into the future? Mr. THORNLEY. Definitely. Mr. JENNER. And as you put it this, in your opinion, had become a religion with him. Mr. THORNLEY. Much more than he himself realized even though he called it his religion.