Mrs. GIBSON. No; and I wouldn't say there was a tremendous amount of love lost between them. Mr. JENNER. Between Marina and Lee Harvey Oswald? Mrs. GIBSON. That is right. They quarreled quite a lot. Mr. JENNER. Would you tell us about this lack of rapport between Marina and Lee Harvey Oswald? Mrs. GIBSON. Well, they fought quite a bit. They fought in Russian, always verbally when I saw them, but when she was living with Mrs. Hall in Fort Worth, I was told that he beat her up on numerous occasions, physically assaulted her, and that Mrs. Hall and her, oh, I don't know what you would call him, her fiance, Alex---- Mr. JENNER. Is that Alex, Alexander Kleinlerer? Mrs. GIBSON. I guess so. I don't know his name. Mr. JENNER. Describe him to us. Mrs. GIBSON. Describe him? Mr. JENNER. Physically. Mrs. GIBSON. He was short, very dark, moustache, black moustache, European dresser, an accent, very much the gangster type in his looks, very oily looking, very oily in personality, actually a rather creepy customer. He spoke Russian fluently. I think he spoke quite a few languages fluently. He, I believe, was born or originated in Paris. I have no idea what his occupation was. But he did not get along with Lee at all. He had numerous arguments with him over Marina and how he beat her. Mr. JENNER. Did any of this occur in your presence? Mrs. GIBSON. One afternoon he was telling Lee off very, very---- Mr. JENNER. Tell us where this occurred? Mrs. GIBSON. This occurred in Mrs. Hall's home in Fort Worth. Mr. JENNER. You were present? Mrs. GIBSON. And my husband; we were both present. Mr. JENNER. And who else please? Mrs. GIBSON. Mrs. Hall and Marina were in the other room. Lee and Alex, and he was telling Lee off in no uncertain terms about how he beat up Marina, and about his whole outlook on life. He was really giving him a tongue lashing. Mr. JENNER. And what response did he obtain from Lee? Mrs. GIBSON. Very sullen, very sharp answers. In fact I thought there was going to be a fight there for a minute. Mr. JENNER. Did Lee deny at that time in your presence, these accusations being uttered by Alexander Kleinlerer? Mrs. GIBSON. He said it was none of his business. Mr. JENNER. But he didn't deny that he had done this? Mrs. GIBSON. No. Mr. JENNER. He just said it was none of Kleinlerer's business? Mrs. GIBSON. That is right. Mr. JENNER. Had either you or your husband ever--did either you or your husband ever talk to Lee Oswald about his treatment of Marina? Mrs. GIBSON. No; we never talked to him about beating his wife. We just talked to him about how he should teach her English, how it was very important for her to know English. Mr. JENNER. I take it that that phase, that is the teaching of English to her, that sort of conversation occurred several times during your acquaintanceship with Oswald? Mrs. GIBSON. Oh, yes; very often. Mr. JENNER. And his response always was that he didn't want to lose----