Mr. PIC. No sir; he didn't mention that at all to me. Mr. JENNER. And anything said about his problems with the--I will withdraw that. Was anything said about his defection or attempted defection to Russia? Mr. PIC. No, sir; he did not mention his defection at all. Why he did it or how he did it, he didn't mention anything, and I didn't ask him. Mr. JENNER. During the several days you were in Fort Worth visiting your brother Robert, did you and he go hunting? Mr. PIC. We went fishing, sir. Mr. JENNER. Fishing? I take it you did not go hunting. Mr. PIC. No, sir; not at that particular time. When I first went there in 1958, we did go hunting. Mr. JENNER. I see. When you three boys were in Fort Worth, that is before you enlisted in January 1950, did you boys occasionally go hunting? Mr. PIC. We had no firearms whatsoever, sir, in the house. Mr. JENNER. So you did not go hunting? Mr. PIC. I didn't. Robert possibly did with some friends of his. I don't think Lee ever did. We went fishing several times. Mr. JENNER. After you returned to this country in 1962, thereafter there were occasions, where there, or some one occasion, at least, when you did go squirrel or rabbit hunting with your brother Robert? Mr. PIC. No, sir; that was in 1958. Mr. JENNER. Oh, yes. When you were traveling across country to California? Mr. PIC. Yes; we went to his in-law's farm and we did a little hunting on his father-in-law's property. Mr. JENNER. What kind of firearms? Mr. PIC. .22, sir. Mr. JENNER. Single shot? Mr. PIC. Yes, sir. Mr. JENNER. You say the subject of your mother was not mentioned in the course of this Thanksgiving Day visit? Mr. PIC. No, sir; Robert and I never brought her up in any conversations we had. Mr. JENNER. Did Lee? Mr. PIC. Yes, sir. Mr. JENNER. What did he say about her? Mr. PIC. He mentioned her, that he had seen her or been in touch with her when he first came back, maybe even stayed with her for a week or two when he first came back, I don't remember. My wife later told me that Marina couldn't get along with my mother. Mr. JENNER. Marina told your wife that she couldn't get along with your mother? Mr. PIC. No, sir; I think it was Vada told my wife that Marina couldn't. I think she rather observed this rather than being told by Marina. Mr. JENNER. I see. Mr. PIC. That the two of them, not that they didn't get along, but that Marina disliked her. Mr. JENNER. Is that the last time you saw your brother Lee? Mr. PIC. Well, sir, in the course of that Thanksgiving Day, my brother Robert offered to drive him back to the bus station. Lee made a phone call and it was my understanding that the people that he phoned were of Russian descent, and that Marina often visited with them or talked with them, so she could talk in her own native tongue, and that their boy, who was attending, I believe, the University of Oklahoma---- Mr. JENNER. Paul Gregory?