Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, you are indicating from the intersection of the jail corridor and the ramp at the basement? Mr. STEVENSON. Directly out in front of the jail office entrance, and in this area in here, and up this way and back here. Mr. HUBERT. Do you know anything about the removal of those two men from the positions indicated? Mr. STEVENSON. No, sir; I do not. Mr. HUBERT. Now, did you observe the shooting? Mr. STEVENSON. No, sir; I did not witness the shooting. If I may explain that, when Mr. Dhority backed the car that was to carry Lee Harvey Oswald to the county jail, then, as I have stated before, I stepped to the west side of it and was right about the front hinge of the door. I heard someone remark "They are coming out." I looked around and observed Captain Fritz coming right through here. Mr. HUBERT. From the jail corridor? Mr. STEVENSON. From the jail corridor. When I saw him, I immediately directed my attention to the overall basement area of our security setup to observe anything that went on, and they had not taken but a few steps and had not reached the back of the car when I heard a shot, and immediately again I directed by attention to the prisoner and observed a group of officers, I would say, some 8 or 10, subduing someone. And as I stepped back here, I saw Detective Graves who had been with Oswald. Mr. HUBERT. When you say, "stepped back"---- Mr. STEVENSON. Back to where the shooting had taken place, I saw him rise from the crowd with a gun in his hand still holding it around the cylinder. Ruby was picked up and taken into the jail office, who I afterwards learned was Ruby, and Oswald was also carried into the jail office. Lieutenant Wiggins instructed an ambulance to be called. I then stepped back out of the jail. When the shooting took place, the officers on the Main Street ramp, this one up here---- Mr. HUBERT. That would be Mr. Vaughn? Mr. STEVENSON. I don't know that he was one that pulled his gun, but there were several reserve officers and other officers down in here. Mr. HUBERT. That is on the Main Street ramp? Mr. STEVENSON. I was told by, I believe it was, Captain Jones, that the officers up there had their guns out. And I stepped back out of the jail office after seeing that Ruby and Oswald had been taken care of. The north ramp was quiet, but the officers were having difficulty with people. Mr. HUBERT. On the Commerce Street ramp? Mr. STEVENSON. At the top of the Commerce Street ramp, or near the top. I stepped back up here and told those officers that the man that did the shooting was in custody and there was no more trouble. Ruby was taken upstairs and the ambulance picked up Oswald. Mr. HUBERT. Did you go up with Ruby yourself? Mr. STEVENSON. No; Captain King, Detective Archer, and I believe McMillon went up with Lee Harvey Oswald. Mr. HUBERT. You mean with Ruby? Mr. STEVENSON. I mean with Ruby, pardon me. With Ruby up to the jail office.