Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you clear the newspaper people out of the jail office before or after this TV camera? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. It was before. Mr. GRIFFIN. After the TV camera came down, where did you station yourself? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. I was right back in this door, the same place. Mr. GRIFFIN. Still there? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Right there. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you look out towards the TV cameras from time to time? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Yeah. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, tell us what you saw as you looked out towards the TV cameras? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Mostly saw lights. I mostly saw lights were shining in my eyes here, but there was a line of men along here which consisted of officers and news media. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you remember when the armored car came down? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Well, I know when they were trying to back it down, but it couldn't get through. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you remember Chief Batchelor being up there by the armored car? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. I couldn't see the armored car from where I was. Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you remain in this position that you have marked with an "X" after the TV camera came through? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. You mean how long did I stay there? Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Until after the officers and Lee Oswald came through. Then I stepped up maybe one or two steps behind them, and that is when the shot rang out. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see any of the officers here in this area along the Main Street ramp? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Well, I think there was one standing right here, and one right here. But just who they were, I don't know. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see any of them up further across the Main Street ramp? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. I don't remember seeing any. I know there was a line of men along there, and who they were, I don't know. Mr. GRIFFIN. From where you were standing, you could see the TV camera going in that direction, couldn't you? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. I saw the TV camera over here; yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. Could you see from where you were standing any people in front of that TV camera? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. No; not that I can remember except there were people right in here. Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you indicate where you saw people congregating over in the area of the entrance to the garage? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. No; I think there were some--I will put a couple of "X's"--I think there were some along there, and there were people right along here [indicating]. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, were you able to see how many lines of people there were along across the Main Street ramp? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. No. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see Rio Pierce, the same Pierce car go up the ramp? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see it break through the line of newsmen? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Yes. Did I see a car break through the line? Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. Mr. CUTCHSHAW. All I know, it went up, or when it cleared the way, I know the car did go up, because I don't know how many people---- Mr. GRIFFIN. You didn't actually see the car reach the top of the ramp? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. No.