Captain JONES. I was asked how many times, and I could not estimate how many times. I said, "Not over six times, probably, altogether." Mr. HUBERT. Let me put it this way to you. Did you know him well enough so that you would have recognized him had he walked into a room? Captain JONES. That is a question in my mind that I doubt very much that I would have. I did recognize him in the basement after someone said--before I ever saw who it ever was in custody, that it was Jack Ruby, and when I was told that in advance I did recognize him. Otherwise, it is possible that I might have recognized him had I been given that opportunity but I did not have the opportunity. Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him, that is to say, Jack Ruby, in your rounds of the basement any time, from the shooting of the President until the shooting of Oswald? Captain JONES. To recognize him as such, I did not see him to recognize him then. And after seeing him at the time of the arrest, I did not recall having seen him even as a face in the crowd prior to that. Mr. HUBERT. Would you say that now with the consideration after having been told that it was Jack Ruby and recognizing him, you still don't remember having seen---- Captain JONES. I did not see that particular man in there, and not having recognized him, I don't recall seeing that face, at any time. This is with the full knowledge that since this matter I have found that one of my own men filed a simple assault case on him about a year ago, but I wasn't aware of that. Mr. HUBERT. Did you know of any plans that had been made at that time for the transportation of Oswald, prior to leaving to go home on Saturday night, the 23d of November? Captain JONES. That is one of the questions that I am going to have to say that things have come up that during my investigation that I headed following the shooting of Oswald, by Ruby--that I headed a team of several lieutenants, and one detective investigating the security in the basement--and I have some knowledge as a result of that investigation, that no one came to me and told me about the possible transfer, or--possible transfer, or any plans for a transfer prior to me going home Saturday night. Mr. HUBERT. Were you aware that the plan was not to transfer Oswald until at least 10 o'clock on Sunday morning? Captain JONES. It seems to me as if possibly there was something about that in my mind, but I can't tell you where I got it, but there was some talk around there. I don't know whether the time was 10 o'clock, or 9 o'clock, and since that time I have talked to people that said, "I don't know," but it does seem to me that I was under the impression that when I got up Sunday morning that if I got down there before 9 o'clock, he possibly would not have been transferred by that time, but so help me, I cannot think--I cannot say how that I knew that.