Mr. HUBERT. Did you see Ruby come out of the crowd? Mr. HUFFAKER. No, sir; I didn’t. Mr. HUBERT. Did you hear him? Mr. HUFFAKER. No, sir. Mr. HUBERT. When did you first observe that something had happened? Mr. HUFFAKER. When I heard the shot, I recognized it as the sound of a .38, and just as soon as reflexes would do it, I turned and saw Oswald as he fell. I really could not distinguish Ruby from the mass of humanity that was there, but the thing that I saw when I turned around was Oswald falling. Mr. HUBERT. What distance do you suppose there was between your body and Oswald’s body at the time you saw this? You may look, for example, in this room and see. Stay where you are and let me stand away from you--was it this far or farther or closer or what? [Hubert walked distances as indicated by the question.] Mr. HUFFAKER. Let me see--let me stand up--it was about this far. Mr. HUBERT. What do you judge, “this distance” to be? Mr. HUFFAKER. Well, I would say it is about 11 feet. Mr. HUBERT. All right. Did you hear Ruby say anything? Mr. HUFFAKER. No, sir; I did not. Mr. HUBERT. Did you hear anyone else say anything which was distinguishable? Mr. HUFFAKER. Not distinguishable--that is, not at the moment of the shot. Immediately before or after---- Mr. HUBERT. Did you hear anything at any time after? Mr. HUFFAKER. Yes, sir; I did, which I could not quote it exactly, but the first thing that I distinguished, the first utterance that I could distinguish, and as I say, I do not recall the exact words, but I heard Police Officer Richard Swain who was--I don’t know where he was before the shot was fired, but immediately afterward, he was standing a very short distance from me blocking access of anyone else, and he made--he shouted out for no one to come any further. Mr. HUBERT. You don’t remember the words? Mr. HUFFAKER. The words, frankly, I think he said, “I’ll knock you on your ass,” but I’m not certain exactly what the words were. Mr. HUBERT. But in any case, in the sense you understood the officer, he was trying to keep anybody from converging there? Mr. HUFFAKER. And how. Yes; he was. Mr. HUBERT. There’s one other thing I wanted to do by way of position. I’m going to roughly draw a rectangle which will not be in scale but I hope that it will fix the position of the television camera unit of KRLD which you were attached to. Mr. HUFFAKER. Yes, sir. Mr. HUBERT. In the first place, I understand it was on the other side of the rail from you? Mr. HUFFAKER. That’s correct. Mr. HUBERT. I understand further that some of its mechanisms, its camera mechanisms were actually sticking out over the rail? Mr. HUFFAKER. I think actually it protruded through the rail, rather than over the rail, but I really can’t say for certain--I think it was through the rail. Mr. HUBERT. As I understand it, it was to your back and left more or less? Mr. HUFFAKER. That’s correct.