Mr. GRIFFIN. On page 149, the FBI reports you as indicating, and I am quoting, “He said that one night approximately November 14 or 15, 1963, Ruby was having trouble with an MC Earl Norman at the Carousel and about 1:30 a.m., he, Ruby, sent Crafard out to the car to get the gun.” Mr. CRAFARD. I believe in testimony yesterday I stated that I couldn’t remember exactly who he had the trouble with, and I am right now not clear after thinking all night, I am not clear in my mind as to the fact that it was Earl Norman. Mr. GRIFFIN. Was your memory accurate at the time you talked with the FBI? Mr. CRAFARD. I am not positive of that. Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you sure, though, that the reason Ruby went to get the gun was because he was having trouble with the M.C.? Mr. CRAFARD. No; that is what I say. I am not positive of the fact who it was he was having trouble with. Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you sure that Ruby went to get the gun because he was having trouble with somebody? Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; he had had some trouble with somebody and he had sent me to get the gun. Mr. GRIFFIN. You stated that the gun was believed to be the property of Howard? Mr. CRAFARD. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. The Negro employee, and I am reading that from page 149. Is it still your understanding that that gun was Howard’s gun? Mr. CRAFARD. Yes. Shortly after I went to work for Jack he told me or Howard told me that when he first went to work for Jack he had three or four different guns and he had permits for his pistols, and on a couple of occasions the law forces confiscated his pistols and later returned them, and he was afraid this might happen again and he wouldn’t get this particular pistol back so Jack asked him if he could borrow the gun and he told Jack yes; he could use the gun as long as he wanted. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever say anything to you which indicated that the gun was not Jack Ruby’s gun? Mr. CRAFARD. No. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk to Howard about the gun that Jack Ruby had at any time after you went down to the car on the 14th or 15th of November to bring the gun up to Jack? Mr. CRAFARD. No; I don’t believe so. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever talk specifically with Howard about the gun that Jack was carrying around in the trunk of his car? Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; this was the gun our conversation was about. He said that gun had belonged, it was his gun, that he had loaned it to Mr. Ruby. Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember what kind of a .38 caliber revolver this was? Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it was a Colt. Other than that I couldn’t say. It was a snubnosed revolver, Colt snubnosed is all I know. Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there anything distinguishing about the handle? Mr. CRAFARD. I couldn’t describe anything distinguishable about the handle, but I believe I could recognize the revolver if I was to see it. Excuse me, that handle was an, I believe an imitation bone handle on that pistol. I believe it was kind of a grayish-white imitation bone handle with dark brown spots on it.