Mr. HUBERT. What is your opinion from your general knowledge? Mr. SENATOR. Now when you ask me about kicking and all that, I mean I don’t know. Mr. HUBERT. You know the man and that is all I’m asking. Is he the type of man who would do that in your opinion? Mr. SENATOR. I don’t think so. First of all I don’t think so. Personally, I don’t think so, but after all I can’t answer for what another individual would think in his mind. I don’t know, see. Mr. HUBERT. We understand this is merely your opinion, you see. Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I don’t personally think so. I don’t think he would be that brutal. Mr. GRIFFIN. You saw him in this fight with Taber or Tabin? Mr. SENATOR. Yes, but there was no kicking. Mr. GRIFFIN. I want to ask you about this. I take it this was not a prolonged thing. Jack hit him once and that was it? Mr. SENATOR. No, no; there were probably six or eight blows swapped. But I would say Jack got most of the blows in. Mr. GRIFFIN. And this guy swung. What caused Jack to stop? Did somebody pull him off? Mr. SENATOR. Yes; they stopped it. They stopped it and pulled off. Mr. GRIFFIN. This episode at the Carousel that you saw, you say you didn’t actually see any blows thrown at the Carousel. You came in at the tail end of it. Mr. SENATOR. No; I would say, see, there is an archway; in other words, it is going up a flight of steps. Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. Mr. SENATOR. And at the flight of steps the doors open and then there is a walk in, you know, an archway. It is almost like in a closed archway which is maybe about 20 or 25 steps. Well, around the =L= shape of it I didn’t see. Mr. GRIFFIN. Could you tell from where you were how many blows were thrown? Mr. SENATOR. No. Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did this last? Mr. SENATOR. It didn’t last long because there must have been one or two blows and that was it. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did anybody come in and break that up? Mr. SENATOR. I don’t know what happened. I just don’t remember what happened there. I think he knocked him down. I’m not sure. I think he knocked him down with that blow. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack accomplish his purpose? Mr. SENATOR. There was a few people gathered around and the next thing I think they took him down or something like that. I don’t know. I just don’t recall what happened on that particular incident but I do know that something did happen at the time where this fellow I think he was drunk. I really don’t know if he was. I think he was. Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you ever talked with Jack about what his attitude is about using his fists? Mr. SENATOR. No; this, which I don’t know too much about his youth, it probably comes from the bringing up of his youth, the poverty that the family went through. His father was a habitual drunkard, of which I have heard, and the separations of the family and they lived in a cold water flat and the only way I’m familiar of something of this nature is what I have seen in motion pictures of past years of this.