Mr. GRIFFIN. Or did you mean that if you had an argument that resulted in termination of employment you would still shake hands with him and go away? Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. That also? Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. But he was the kind of fellow who quickly made up after he had an argument with you? Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. How did he make up? Did he apologize for his own conduct? Mr. JOHNSON. Yes; he would. Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you think of any specific episode that you had with him? Mr. JOHNSON. I had so many, I don’t remember. For instance, maybe sometimes his sister would get angry with me, and it might be a night that I should be paid and she wouldn’t pay me. Well, he wouldn’t take sides with her. He would get the money from somewhere and pay me, even if he had to bring it to my house, and he would apologize for her. Or even if anything should occur with him, he would apologize. Mr. GRIFFIN. Is there anything else that you can think of that you would want to tell us that might shed some light on Jack Ruby on why he committed the crime that he committed. Mr. JOHNSON. I haven’t the slightest idea, because the only time that I have known Jack--I have known him to shoot in the club when there was some trouble--shoot at the ceiling. We would have heated arguments, but never at any time where he put a pistol on me. I wasn’t afraid to argue with him, because I didn’t think he was that kind of a person. Mr. GRIFFIN. The time that he shot the pistol off in the club, what was he doing it for? Mr. JOHNSON. They maybe were having a fight in the club, and to scare them he would shoot at the ceiling. I can’t think of anything other than what I have told you. Other than, as far as I am concerned, he was all right. After leaving, he wasn’t angry with me, and he didn’t appear to be angry with me. We had a heart-to-heart talk, and I just explained to him I thought it would be better for me. I was getting in a rut at the club, and I just wanted to change. We had no angry words or anything. Mr. GRIFFIN. Thank you very much for coming here and waiting as you had to a bit longer than we expected. Mr. JOHNSON. Like I say, even if it meant to give up a job, I wanted to do whatever I could. Mr. GRIFFIN. This has been helpful to us because we are trying to get an insight from the experiences other people had with him, and you have helped us today to fill in some gaps that we didn’t have, and I appreciate that very much. Mr. JOHNSON. I certainly hope I have been some help. Thank you very much. Mr. GRIFFIN. Bye, bye. TESTIMONY OF EDWARD J. PULLMAN The testimony of Edward J. Pullman was taken at 7:05 p.m., on July 24, 1964; in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Burt W. Griffin, assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.