Mr. GRIFFIN. Where do you live, Mr. Pullman? Mr. PULLMAN. 5454 Anita. Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that in Dallas? Mr. PULLMAN. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. When were you born? Mr. PULLMAN. July 12, 1928--no; that’s July 28, 1912. Mr. GRIFFIN. What is your occupation? Mr. PULLMAN. I am a furniture designer and consultant--games, ideas, promotions--anything for the public; creative ideas for games and so forth. Mr. GRIFFIN. How long have you been in that business? Mr. PULLMAN. Oh, about 30 years. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any formal training in that? Mr. PULLMAN. No; I just learned it all. Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you self-employed? Mr. PULLMAN. I am working for a company right now. Mr. GRIFFIN. And whom do you work for? Mr. PULLMAN. I’m working for Freed Furniture Co. Mr. GRIFFIN. And were you working for them at the time I have mentioned? Mr. PULLMAN. No; I just started with them. I was just working for myself--I have just started with them. Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have a family? Mr. PULLMAN. My wife and daughter and children. Mr. GRIFFIN. When, approximately, did you first meet Jack Ruby? Mr. PULLMAN. Well, I met Jack--oh, I’d say several years ago, but I never had any real contact with him, but I had heard a lot about Jack, but I never had any contact with him until 1963, and that was in the summer. Mr. GRIFFIN. How did Jack happen to make contact with you at that time? Mr. PULLMAN. Well, my wife was the one that I got in contact with him on, because she went to help in the night club. She used to be the manager of the Theatre Lounge. Mr. GRIFFIN. Your wife was the manager of the Theatre Lounge? Mr. PULLMAN. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she meet Jack as a result of that? Mr. PULLMAN. Well, no; she had left the Theatre Lounge and she wanted to get something to do and she was told that Jack was looking for someone to help him and she was up there and he got her started working. She actually wasn’t working in a true sense of the word because he was never sure of what he wanted. What she could do for him--he couldn’t put anything right down on the line and say, “Yes; I want you to do this or that.” He was very erratic. Every night he ran the place on a different basis. Mr. GRIFFIN. When did she start to work for him? Mr. PULLMAN. I think it was--I’m not sure, but I believe it was in July. Mr. GRIFFIN. In 1953? Mr. PULLMAN. 1963. Mr. GRIFFIN. And how long did she continue to work for him? Mr. PULLMAN. I think--about 6 or 8 weeks. Mr. GRIFFIN. And how did she happen to leave? Mr. PULLMAN. She didn’t happen to leave--it was just too confusing--the confusion was constant and she couldn’t do things the way they should be run because she had a pretty good idea of how to run a club and she would try to help him and it seemed like he didn’t want to accept any help as far as his operations were concerned and he wanted to do it all himself. Mr. GRIFFIN. So, what actually, did she wind up doing for him?