CHAP. XVII.--28. Monnulus of Girba[446] said: "The truth of our mother, the Catholic Church, hath continued, and still continues among us, brethren, especially in the threefold nature[447] of baptism, as our Lord says, 'Go, baptize all nations in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.'[448] Since, therefore," he goes on to say, "we know clearly that heretics have neither Father, Son, nor Holy Ghost, they ought, on coming to our mother, the Church, to be truly regenerate and baptized, that the cancer which they had, and the wrath of condemnation, and the destructive energy of error,[449] may be sanctified by the holy and heavenly laver." 29. To this we answer, That all who are baptized with the baptism that is consecrated in the words of the gospel have the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost in the sacrament alone; but that in heart and in life neither do those have them who live an abandoned and accursed life within. * * * * * CHAP. XVIII.--30. Secundinus of Cediæ[450] said: "Since our Lord Christ said, 'He that is not with me is against me,'[451] and the Apostle John declares those who go out from the Church to be antichrists,[452] without all doubt the enemies of Christ, and those who are called antichrists, cannot minister the grace of the baptism which gives salvation; and therefore my judgment is that those who take refuge in the Church from the snares of heresy should be baptized by us, who of His condescension are called the friends of God." 31. The answer to which is, That all are the opponents of Christ, to whom, on their saying, "Lord, have we not in Thy name done many wonderful things?" with all the rest that is there recorded, He shall at the last day answer, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity,"[453]--all which kind of chaff is destined for the fire, if it persevere to the last in its wickedness, whether any part of it fly outside before its winnowing, or whether it seem to be within. If, therefore, those heretics who come to the Church are to be again baptized, that they may be baptized by the friends of God, are those covetous men, those robbers, murderers, the friends of God, or must those whom they have baptized be baptized afresh? * * * * * CHAP. XIX.--32. Felix of Bagai[454] said: "As when the blind leads the blind, both fall into the ditch,[455] so when a heretic baptizes a heretic, both fall together into death."