2174. The stringent conditions put into the contracts keep all honest men away?--That is going too far; I mean to say that you are asked to agree to very strict conditions, which a man cannot honestly say, “I agree to.” If the condition says that if I am half an hour behind time I shall forfeit £500, a man naturally asks himself, “Shall I enter into the contract? for if those clauses are inserted, I am a ruined man, and therefore I cannot guarantee that.” 2175. If you and your friends had tendered this service for £60,000, you would have required more reasonable conditions?--I should have no objection to being bound to all reasonable conditions. The late contract for the mail to the Brazils is as it ought to be; there is no kind of trap of so many hours; the condition is simply this, the ships are to be efficient vessels. 2176. No honest man, in your opinion, would have undertaken such a contract as that which the Peninsular and Oriental Company undertook, for £60,000?--What I mean is this, that no honest man would undertake a thing which he was not competent to perform; for instance, he would not undertake that the passage shall be a certain number of hours; and putting in those strict conditions would prevent an honest man from taking part in it. 2177. I understood you to say, that no honest man would undertake, and therefore I presume you would not have recommended anybody to undertake, so strict a condition as that of which we are speaking?--I am afraid you are putting a wrong construction upon what I said; I say, no honest man would undertake a condition which he could not honestly say he could perform. If I bound myself to go in a certain number of hours between certain points, an honest man would say, if that was a great speed, “I cannot bind myself to accomplish that.” 2178. That would prevent an honest man from complying with the conditions imposed upon the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Packet Company?--That is putting it in the other way; I am certain that I would have taken the contract, because I know that Government would not exact the penalty. 2179. You would have taken it, though an honest man would not have taken it?--I am afraid you are misinterpreting me; you use the words “honest man” in a different sense from that in which I use them. I mean to say that an honest man could not honestly undertake to do a thing which was almost impracticable; but, as I know the Government would not have exacted the penalty, I would have taken the contract if I had had an opportunity; but I had no opportunity. 2180. You would have taken the contract?--Yes, anybody would take the contract for £170,000 a year; nobody would have refused it. 2181. You were under the impression that the Peninsular and Oriental Company were so strong that nobody could compete with them?--Yes, and that is the impression now. 2182. That was your impression at the time you lent your aid to the drawing up of that petition?--Yes, it was.