Mr. Thomae represented that his interests might in one aspect be affirmative also and asked to hear the discussion. He was permitted to. He was not invited; he did not participate; he uttered not a word in the course of the entire proceedings. But he asked to come and listen, and he was permitted to. On the list of the few others present as observers you will find the name of Gen. Eugene Griffin. General Griffin came to us in March saying that he understood some such provisions as these were under consideration; he had some interest in a concern which would be affected; could he attend the conference and hear what was proposed? Certainly. And he did. Mr. Thomae was to us but the maker of a particular typical device. With Mr. Thomae as a competitor among you we had no concern. What device or company General Griffin was interested in we did not know and I do not know to this day. But we took care to insert the names of both gentlemen on the printed list of those present, so that you and others might be free to make such inference as you chose from the fact of their presence. And this list was furnished freely to all requesting it. These conferences have been going on for a year past. The fact that they were being held, their purpose, and the associations participating in them was freely published. Among these associations were the composers and the music publishers. In the Apollo suit then pending they were trying to secure protection of this sort under existing law. There was every reason to suppose that they would urge it in the new statute. Did any of you ever inquire of us whether they were doing so? As long ago as last December the President announced to Congress, and in the most public way to the country, that the bill had already been prepared. Did you ask us for it? Did you even ask whether such a bill would be likely to include any such provisions? As long ago as January the music trade journals began to refer to the fact that it would do so. Did you then ask leave to come to the next conference? Did you ask even as to the character of the provisions? Did you communicate with the Copyright Office in any way in the matter? You know you did not.