I do not see how they can deny that they sell their roll or their machine, because they are reproducing a part of our brain, of our genius, or whatever it might be. They pay, as Mr. Sousa said, the singer who sings a song into their machines. They pay Mr. Caruso $3,000 for each song--for each record. He might be singing Mr. Sousa's song, or my song, and the composer would not receive a cent. I say that that can not be just. It is as plain a question, Mr. Chairman, as it could be, to my mind. Morally, there is only one side to it, and I hope you will see it and recommend the necessary law. Mr. CURRIER. Just an incident: The talking machine company that pays a singer gets no protection on that record under the law, either, does it? Mr. HERBERT. I think they do. Mr. CURRIER. Could not a competing talking machine company immediately reproduce those records? Mr. HERBERT. Well, they would go for them. Mr. CURRIER. I have an impression that there is no law under which they could. Mr. HERBERT. I think they would. Mr. CURRIER. I think there is no protection at all. Mr. HERBERT. I know that we are not protected. Since the courts have held that the perforated roll is not an imitation of the sheet music we have absolutely no ground to stand on. STATEMENT OF MR. HORACE PETTIT. Mr. PETTIT. I represent the Victor Talking Machine Company. While I am not here as one of the advocates or proponents of the bill, it is very fitting, I think, at this time, immediately after Mr. Sousa's and Mr. Victor Herbert's appearance, that I should state what we have to say in regard to the talking machines. It may be that Mr. Herbert and Mr. Sousa have been somewhat abused by the talking-machine companies. They, however, certainly do not show it in their appearance. Our position is to be equitable and just in the matter. We believe that there should be protection, and we are willing that this bill, with certain amendments we have to suggest, should be passed, substantially on the lines indicated, so that the composer should have the protection against his music or his compositions being copied on a record of a talking machine; with the understanding, however, that it does not apply to subsisting copyrights. I believe that is the understanding as expressed, although there is some ambiguity in the language, and therefore I would suggest that section 3, in that regard, be modified, either by striking out the section or by adding to it. Section 3 reads (reading): SEC. 3. That the copyright provided by this act shall extend to and protect all the copyrightable component parts of the work copyrighted, any and all reproductions or copies thereof, in whatever form, style, or size, and all matter reproduced therein in which copyright is already subsisting, but without extending the duration of such copyright. I therefore would add to that, in view of that somewhat ambiguous language: