Constantine regarded the gifted youth with wonder and delight, and listened with joy and amazement while the fresh and silvery tongue struck out, in forms of speech as clear and beautiful as the last coins issued from the royal mint, thoughts which he had himself long cherished and acted upon, but had never been able to conceive so perspicuously as the young archdeacon uttered them. The emperor then said, "Thou adoptest the opinions of the most learned and pious Bishop Alexander rather than those of the primitive, inflexible, and turbulent presbyter, dost thou not?" "Only to a limited extent," answered the musical voice of Athanasius. "For our venerable bishop himself is ancient, and agreeth in many things with the presbyter. Truly, the great advantage that Arius hath over him consisteth in the fact that they have attended the same councils and witnessed the same events together, and the presbyter doth continually affirm this thing or that, and sayeth unto the bishop: ’Thou, also, wast then present; is it true, or not, as I have stated it?’ And the bishop answereth, ’That thing I deny not, for it is true.’ And then, as the report of the thunder followeth the lightning’s flash, the fierce presbyter’s conclusion striketh and overwhelmeth him. Thou canst scarcely understand how all this may be, unless thou hast seen men and women burned at the stake thyself, and hast heard their testimony, sifting through the flames, that they obeyed Jesus Christ, the only rightful King, whence they were called _martyrs_, that is, _witnesses_; but both Alexander and Arius have beheld such things, and the influence thereof abideth with them forever." Then answered Constantine: "I thank God this day that I have seen no such events, and that no man under mine own government, or under that of my father, the most holy Emperor Constantius, hath ever seen them. But whence, then, hast thou learned thy views of the relation that ought to subsist between the Church and the emperor?" "Chiefly from mine own thoughts, which many circumstances have provoked to activity, especially the efforts I have made to aid our venerable bishop. Long ago, in one of our social gatherings, when Arius did press the bishop fiercely upon the point that Christians must have naught to do with any government except the kingdom of heaven, which Jesus ordained for them, I arose and asked permission to put a question, which being granted, I said, ’If Tiberius Cæsar had been a Christian, would not our Lord have rejoiced to see him rule the world?’ And for some time the fierce man was silent." "And what answer did he ever make?" asked Constantine.