J. I hae nae doubt Thomas but there is ither causes that produce these great grievances amang us. Anither great cause, I believe, is our great National Debt, which hangs about our neck like a millstane, and I’m afraid will sink us to the bottom if the string is not cut, and what surprises me maist is to see sae little attention paid to economy, to help to pay off this debt. It is grievin’ to read o’ the thousands, and thousands, and hunders o’ thousands, that is payt awa’ every year to placemen and pensioners, for no purpose under the sun, but rank wastery: ane wad think, when they see our kintra sinkin’ and sae muckle need for care, that they would be glad to adopt any plan to save us; and they ha’e a capital pattern o’ cheap government laid down to them in America, whar the head o’ the house costs them only £6000 instead o’ £400,000, which some folk has to pay. T. I must confess John you talk very reasonably on the subject, and if your plans could be brought to work, they micht hae a gude effect; but there is a heap o’ folk thinks that if we had the Charter it would work a wonderfu’ Reform amang us, and that we woald get a’ our evils set to right in a short time, but I’m afraid it will not be easy gotten to mak’ a trial o’. J. I daresay there would be a change, if that could be gotten, but, as ye say, I doubt it will not be gotten in a hurry, but I should like to see’t try’t, and see what effect it wad hae to Reform matters; but there is ae Reform that we a’ hae in our power, and I think every living man and woman should mak’ a trial o’t to see what effect it wad hae, there’s naebody I speak to but confesses that there is a world of evils in connection with it, and for that reason I think it is our duty to try it, and that is to abstain from all intoxicating drinks, and I cannot think that any man can be a sincere Chartist or Reformer, unless he be a Teetotaler, for the drinking o’ thae drinks completely counteracts his own schemes. T. Ah, noo John, are ye really gaun to tak a’ the hair o’ comfort us puir bodies hae left? if it wasna for the dribble o’ dram I get noo and than, I wad sink un’er my affliction athegither; ye canna deny I’m sure but it raises the spirits and mak’s us cheery mony a time, when nae ither thing will do’t. J. O yes, Thomas, I must confess it raises the spirits, and that to an awfu’ degree, sometimes to 80, but next morning you will find them sink to 40, being 20 below par, and then what state do ye fin’ yoursel’ in? do ye fin’ your purse ony benter? do ye fin’ your head ony healer? your character ony better, or your conscience ony sounder, after wallowing in that sinfu’ drink? I trow no, Thomas.