Then they asked him, "Whether he believed not in the determination of the Church?" And he said, "No, forsooth! but I believe all GOD's Law, and all that GOD wills that I believe; but not in your law nor in your determination: for ye be no part of Holy Church, as openly your deeds shew; but very Antichrists, contrary to GOD's law. For ye have made laws for your covetousness." "This," they said, "was heresy: not for to believe in the determination of the Church." =LOLLARD DEFINITION OF "HOLY CHURCH."= Then the Archbishop asked him, "What was Holy Church?" He said, "I believe that Holy Church is the number of all them that shall be saved; of whom CHRIST is head: of the which Church, one part is in Heaven, another in Purgatory, and the third here in Earth. This part here, standeth in three degrees and estates, Priesthood, Knighthood, and the Comminalty, as I said plainly in my _Belief_." Then the Archbishop said to him, "Wot you who is of this Church? It is doubt to you who is thereof? Ye should not judge!" The Lord said, "_Operibus credite! justum judicium judicate!_" that is to say, "Believe ye the works! judge ye rightful judgement!" Also he said to them all, "Where find ye by GOD's Law, that ye should set thus upon any man, or any man's death, as ye do? But ANNAS and CAIAPHAS sat and judged CHRIST; and so do you!" Then said they, "Yes, Sir, CHRIST judged JUDAS!" =THE VENOM OF WORLDLY POSSESSIONS.= The Lord of COBHAM said, "No, CHRIST judged not JUDAS! but he judged himself, and went and hanged himself: but CHRIST said, _Woe to him_, as he doth to many of you! For since the venom was shed into the Church; ye followed never Christ, nor ye stood never in perfection of GOD's Law!" Then the Archbishop asked him, "What was that venom?" The Lord said, "The lordships and possessions. For then, cried an angel, 'Woe! woe! woe! This day is venom shed into the Church of GOD!' For before that time, there many martyrs of Popes; and since I can tell of none! but, sooth it is, since that time one hath put down another, and one hath slain another, and one hath cursed another, as the Chronicles tell; also of much more cursedness." Also he said, "CHRIST was meek, and the Pope is proud. CHRIST was poor and forgave; the Pope is rich and a man-slayer, as it is openly proved. And thus this is the nest of Antichrist, and out of this nest cometh Antichrist's disciples, of whom these Monks and Friars be the tail." Then said [RICHARD DODINGTON] Prior of the Friars Augustines, "Sir, why say ye so?" And the Lord of COBHAM said, "For as ye be Pharisees, "divided," and divided in habit [_dress_]; so ye make division among the people. And thus these friars and monks with such others be the members of the nest of Antichrist."