On October 24, 1834, the Indians again met in council. The agent asked them if they were ready to reply to the proposals made to them. Holata Mico and Miconopy made short talks. When Jumper rose he complained that a treaty had been made or rather forced on the Indians at Payne's Landing before the twenty years provided in the Camp Moultrie treaty had expired. He was one of the chiefs who had gone to look at the new lands and liked them, but did not like the neighbors they would have, and spoke of these latter Pawnees as savages and horse thieves. He told the agent that his talk always seemed good, but that the Indians did not want to go West. Holata Amathla, who was also one of the chiefs who went West, objected to his people removing there for substantially the same reason as Jumper. Charley Amathla said that seven years of the time stipulated in the Camp Moultrie treaty remained unexpired. He did not say that he would not go, but did not think he would give an answer until the expiration of the seven years. He also complained that the distance to the West was so great that many would die on the way. In these talks the chiefs spoke well of the agent. The latter, in reply, said: "I have no answer to make to what you have said to me to-day. My talk to you yesterday must and will stand, and you must abide by it." He then repeated the question he had previously submitted, and told them to deliberate further, and let him know when they were ready to meet him. Another meeting was held on October 25, 1834. The agent told them he was ready to receive their answers. The speakers on the part of the Indians said their people still refused to comply with the treaty of Payne's Landing and leave their native country. They thought the agent was mad with them. General Thompson, the agent, told them he was not mad, but was their friend; that what they said was not an answer to his questions, and added, "Your father, the President, will compel you to go." He argued that the treaty of Payne's Landing had been duly signed. This was denied by Miconopy, when the general told him he lied, and that by the terms of the treaty the decision of the delegation sent out to view the country was binding on the Seminoles, and they were compelled under its provisions to move. He told them that the Payne's Landing treaty abrogated that made at Camp Moultrie. Replying to Charley Amathla's assertion that the last treaty had been forced upon them, he said: "You say that the white people forced you into the treaty of Payne's Landing. If you were so cowardly as to be forced by anybody to do what you ought not to do, you are unfit to be chiefs, and your people ought to hurl you from your stations." He explained to them the white people's Government; that the Indians living among white people might be charged with all kinds of offenses under the law, and would not be permitted to testify themselves; that the Cherokees, Creeks,