"Very well," said his opponents, going still deeper into this delicate question, so important in philosophy and in religion, "let us consider how God acts on man, and how man conducts himself when so acted on." "I acknowledge," said Eck, "that in conversion the first impulse comes from God, and that the human will is entirely passive."[82] So far the disputants were agreed. "I acknowledge," said Carlstadt, on his part, "that after this first action on the part of God, something must come from man, something which St. Paul calls _the will_, and which the fathers designate by _consent_." Here again both parties were agreed--but at this point the separation began. "This consent of man," said Eck, "comes partly from our natural will, and partly from the grace of God."[83] "No," said Carlstadt, "this will in man is entirely created by God."[84] Hereupon Eck began to express astonishment and indignation at words so well fitted to impress man with a sense of his utter nothingness. "Your doctrine," exclaims he, "makes man a stone or a block, incapable of any counter action...." "What," replied the Reformers, "does not the faculty of receiving the powers which God produces in him (a faculty which we admit that he possesses) sufficiently distinguish him from a stone and a block?" "But," resumed their antagonist, "by denying man all natural power, you contradict experience." "We deny not," was the reply, "that man possesses certain powers, and has in him a faculty of reflecting, meditating, and choosing. We only consider these powers and faculties as mere instruments, incapable of doing any thing that is good until the hand of God sets them in motion. They are like the saw in the hands of the sawyer."[85] [82] "Motionem seu inspirationem prevenientem esse a solo Deo; et ibi liberum arbitrium habet se passive." Preventing motion, or inspiration, is from God, and therein free-will is passive. [83] Partim a Deo, partim a libero arbitrio. [84] "Consentit homo, se consensus est donum Dei. Consentire non est agere." Man consents; but consent is the gift of God. Consent is not action. [85] Ut serra in manu hominis trahentis. [Sidenote: CARLSTADT'S NOTE BOOK. PORTRAIT OF MELANCTHON.]