My own conclusion necessarily is that it does involve such a change, and for a long period of time I felt that such a change was justified because of the adamant refusal of people in high places in government to respond to the needs of the people. And that was particularly true in the depression period, in the unemployed period. Mr. VELDE. I take it from your testimony that you feel the Communist Party of the United States never did teach the overthrow of our form of government by force and violence. Mr. DENNETT. I would have to say to that that they did not emphasize that point. I think it would be ridiculous to contend that that is the complete statement of it. They relied and fell back on Lenin’s explanation of the question of force and violence. And Lenin’s explanation always was that force and violence occurs because the employers start it. In the case of strikes Lenin always contended that it was the employers who started the violence by bringing in either strikebreakers or armed guards or police or something of that sort, and that the violence is started against the workers to begin with. And then he taught that the workers must defend themselves. Mr. VELDE. Did you have the feeling while you were in the Communist Party that the ultimate goal in case all peaceful methods fail was to use force and violence? Mr. DENNETT. It is hard to give you a direct answer to the question as you are posing it. Let me say it this way and see if this answers you: This is the most delicate question that is before everyone on the subject, and I think that I would be unfaithful to myself if I were to give you a snap answer because a snap answer, I think, is inappropriate. I think we have to get at the facts as they exist. And my own feeling and the thing that I was impressed with was, again, the teachings of Lenin wherein he proclaimed that never did any autocracy willingly yield up its power. Never did any tyranny willingly yield up its power, and that necessarily any group who sought to obtain political power under those circumstances would be confronted with solving a problem of force and violence. They would be met with force and they would have to answer it with force. Mr. VELDE. That substantiates the testimony that Barbara Hartle gave us here last June. I am satisfied. Mr. DENNETT. I think that is fundamental teaching of the Communist Party, and anyone who reads Lenin’s works very carefully will find that is there. The point that is germane to us is: Does the United States come in the category that Lenin was speaking of? Now the Communist Party went through a terrific amount of theoretical argument on this question, and some resolved the question as meaning, yes; the United States comes in that category. Some questioned whether that were true, and I think that is why you will find a divergence of testimony from different Communists.