Mr. O’CONNELL. Actually, I mean as far as the International Labor Defense is concerned, I think the latest, according to that record, that I was involved is sometime in 1940. I think its earliest citation was by this committee in 1939. Then the Attorney General’s citations were many years after that when it was actually in existence. Mr. TAVENNER. 1942? Mr. O’CONNELL. 1942. Mr. TAVENNER. Yes, sir; you said many years later; 1942 is the date that the Attorney General first cited. Mr. O’CONNELL. I thought you said 1948. Mr. TAVENNER. There was one in 1948. Mr. VELDE. Mr. O’Connell, I understood you to say that you didn’t know that the International Labor Defense was a subversive organization or cited as a subversive organization. Mr. O’CONNELL. I actually didn’t know at the time I was involved there. I, for instance, know now that the International Labor Defense has been, and I have known it for some time in the past few years since it was cited. Mr. VELDE. How long have you known it has been cited? Mr. O’CONNELL. My best recollection would be that I have probably known since 1945, somewhere in there; maybe a little earlier, but certainly at this time I didn’t know it. For instance, I am out in the State of Montana. A lot of this material is not covered by the press in Montana, and it does not have any particular interest, and, of course, I was not involved; I was no longer a Member of Congress at that time. I had a sincere desire, I actually believed, and felt that Tom Mooney had been framed, and I felt that he ought to be released from prison. I worked for his freedom. I think, in one instance, as far as the International Labor Defense is concerned, I was going into Jersey City to speak against Mayor Frank Hague. The meeting that I was speaking at apparently was sponsored by Norman Thomas’ Socialist Party, or they were the ones that had arranged it, and members of the International Labor Defense requested me not to speak, but I went there and spoke. At that time, to my best recollection, Mike Quill was the New York labor leader and still is. He was prevailing upon me not to go in there and speak, but I did go into Jersey City and tried to speak there. I felt that Frank Hague was denying civil liberties and particularly freedom of speech. Mr. VELDE. But at that time did you not realize that the International Labor Defense had been cited by your Government as being subversive? Mr. O’CONNELL. Congressman, at that time I was 27, 28 years old. My political experience, particularly as far as Socialists were concerned, as far as Communists were concerned, and all of that, I had no training or study in Marxism-Leninism. As a matter of fact, I had very little knowledge of what the differences were, what their division of opinion was, or anything of the kind. My feeling was that both of them were for socialism and I didn’t know what their particular division was.