‘And do you think there is really much chance of a Joshua fulfilling the Herculean task of uniting the various races of South Africa.’ ‘It would not be such a Herculean task after all. The thing is almost half done; the events of this year have almost completed the task; it only wants the right man to complete it entirely. What we want is a man who would be trusted by all parties--a man who would do everything unselfishly, who would leave _self_ out of the question entirely, and whose only desire would be to advance the interest of _land_ and _people_.’ ‘And do you think there is any probability of such a man being found?’ ‘I have great hopes. The material for great and noble men is plentiful in South Africa. I believe when the want is felt for such a man by the people, the man will be found.’ ‘I can see you have thought much on the subject. If you had the choice of the two means of obtaining your independence, which would you choose?’ ‘I would certainly choose the peaceful one. For then the country would not receive the great check to progress which she would receive after such a terrible war, as would be the result in case we fought against England. Once we have obtained our independence by fighting for it, our prestige as a people would be far greater than when obtained by peaceful means. But besides the bloodshed and material losses after such a war, we should for many years have England for an enemy, and we would still have a small party of Jingoistic Imperialists in the country. While, should we obtain our independence peacefully, we would have England for a friend and the Imperialist in South Africa would not feel the bitter hatred against the Republicans as was the case when the Transvaal had obtained her independence after fighting for it. A hatred, the evil effects of which are felt to this day.’ ‘Yes, you are quite right. I think, both for the sake of South Africa and England, it would be far better if the problem were solved peacefully. England would be no worse off than she now is if she were to give up the country on the terms proposed by you; while you would have the satisfaction of being independent. As to the race hatred felt after war, history has shown its evil effects--witness France and Germany.’ ‘And I do not see why this peaceful solution should not be obtained. The only obstacle is the misrepresentation of South Africans by parties interested. And then we have people who declare that the Dutch in South Africa must be extinguished, politically, at least, at any sacrifice, even that of principle.’ ‘Yes, I understand. You refer to the Jameson Raid and those concerned in it. But I hardly condemn the raiders as much as I do those who approved it, who should know better. I can tell you I feel ashamed of being a Britisher when I read, for instance, Alfred Austin’s poem. It is a shame that a man who implies such _want_ of principle should hold the position of Poet Laureate to the British Crown.’