Mr. BOWKER: In the days of our youth, in fact almost as soon as we were born, this Association, as Miss Browne has indicated, adopted the letter symbol; and it seems to me that the reasons that operated for the choice of the letter symbol are stronger now than they were then, because the symbol has in the meantime come into quite general, if not universal use. The Association at that time had a phrase to indicate size. The objections to the old fold symbol still remain, and I think one very strong one has been stated. It is not only that the numerical system of 8vo, 12mo, etc., has ceased to mean what it originally meant and is confused with measurement size, but that it is used in England and America with utterly different meanings; and that difference continues. That is to say, the English use crown octavo and post octavo and two or three names for 12mo, in such a way as to cross our use of the word 8vo and 12mo and make a double confusion. I feel very strongly, for one, that the method of breaking over from the octavo and duodecimo, etc., the figure designation, into a definite and accurate letter designation was a very ingenious and very useful move. It is difficult to get general adoption of a modification of that sort, but the adoption has been quite general, and to me it would seem a very great retrogression to go back to the old figure symbol; we had better adhere to the A. L. A. notation of 25 years ago and custom since, and give a symbol which is in no sense confusing or misleading, following that, if you please, with the actual size measurement in centimeters. Mr. RODEN: I understand, of course, that we cannot legislate upon the subject, and possibly our discussion will not influence the legislature. At the same time, as a representative of a popular library in the middle west, I cannot help but regard with apprehension the small but insidious innovations which these rules seem to display. Mr. Josephson has said measurement is a bibliographical detail; in popular libraries it is a gratuitous detail. It could very well, as the chairman suggests, be placed at the end. In the public I am dealing with I should say the old fold symbol is most commonly used and means most. It occurs to me that a combination of fold and letter symbols might be used. I suggest this as a little concession to the popular library, and it is the first I have heard this afternoon. Mr. JONES: An objection to exact measurement is, that so far as the greater mass of books that we have to deal with are concerned, it is not very important whether they are a few centimeters larger or smaller, and such books are often rebound in such a way that if we have an exact description our copies do not correspond. I agree with Mr. Bowker that the symbols adopted by the A. L. A. 25 years ago are sufficiently well known by people who are handling books to be recommended as a system to be adopted.