_Sokr._--But about what affairs of their own? Not about affairs of shipbuilding: for of that you know nothing. _Alk._--When they are discussing war and peace, or any other business concerning the city. _Sokr._--You mean when they are discussing the question with whom they shall make war or peace, and in what manner? But it is certain that we must fight those whom it is best to fight--also _when_ it is best--and _as long as_ it is best. _Alk._--Certainly. _Sokr._--Now, if the Athenians wished to know whom it was best to wrestle with, and when or how long it was best which of the two would be most competent to advise them, you or the professional trainer? _Alk._--The trainer, undoubtedly. _Sokr._--So, too, about playing the harp or singing. But when you talk about _better_, in wrestling or singing, what standard do you refer to? Is it not to the gymnastic or musical art? _Alk._--Yes. _Sokr._--Answer me in like manner about war or peace, the subjects on which you are going to advise your countrymen, whom, and at what periods, it is _better_ to fight, and _better_ not to fight? What in this last case do you mean by _better_? To what standard, or to what end, do you refer?[3] _Alk._--I cannot say. _Sokr._--But is it not a disgrace, since you profess to advise your countrymen when and against whom it is better for them to war,--not to be able to say to what end your _better_ refers? Do not you know what are the usual grounds and complaints urged when war is undertaken? _Alk._--Yes: complaints of having been cheated, or robbed, or injured. _Sokr._--Under what circumstances? _Alk._--You mean, whether justly or unjustly? That makes all the difference. _Sokr._--Do you mean to advise the Athenians to fight those who behave justly, or those who behave unjustly? _Alk._--The question is monstrous. Certainly not those who behave justly. It would be neither lawful nor honourable. _Sokr._--Then when you spoke about _better_, in reference to war or peace, what you meant was _juster_--you had in view justice and injustice? _Alk._--It seems so. [Footnote 3: Plato, Alkib. i. 108 E--109 A. [Greek: i)/thi dê/, kai\ to\ en tô=| polemei=n be/ltion kai\ to\ en tô=| ei)rê/nên a)/gein, tou=to to\ be/ltion ti/ o)noma/zeis? ô(/sper e)kei= e)ph' e)ka/stô| e)/leges to\ a)/meinon, o(/ti mousikô/teron, kai\ e)pi\ tô=| e(terô|, o(/ti gumnastikô/teron; peirô= dê\ kai\ e)ntau=tha le/gein to\ be/ltion . . . . . pro\s ti/ teinei to\ e)n tô=| ei)rê/nên te a)/gein a)/meinon kai\ to\ e)n tô=| polemei=n oi(=s dei=?] _Alkib._ [Greek: A)lla\ skopô=n ou) du/namai e)nnoê=sai.]] [Side-note: How, or from whom, has Alkibiades learnt to discern or distinguish Just and Unjust? He never learnt it from any one; he always knew it, even as a boy.]