LORD CHIEF-BARON--My lord, what say you to it, that you told his father that he was a discreet man, and he needed not to fear his engagement in any such thing? LORD HOWARD--My lord, if I took it right my lord Anglesey's testimony did branch itself into two parts, one of his own knowledge, and the other by hearsay; as to what he said of his own knowledge, when I waited upon my lord of Bedford, and endeavoured to comfort him concerning his son, I believe I said the words my lord Anglesey has given an account of, as near as I can remember, that I looked upon his lordship as a man of that honour, that I hoped he might be secure, that he had not entangled himself in anything of that nature. My lord, I can hardly be provoked to make my own defence, lest this noble lord should suffer, so willing I am to serve my lord, who knows I cannot want affection for him. My lord, I do confess I did say it; for your lordship well knows under what circumstances we were: I was at that time to outface the thing, both for myself and my party, and I did not intend to come into this place, and act this part. God knows how it is brought upon me, and with what unwillingness I do sustain it; but my duty to God, the king, and my country requires it; but I must confess I am very sorry to carry it on thus far. My lord, I do confess I did say so, and if I had been to visit my lord Pemberton, I should have said so. There is none of those that know my lord Russell, but would speak of my lord Russell, from those topics of honour, modesty and integrity, his whole life deserves it. And I must confess that I did frequently say, there was nothing of truth in this, and I wish this may be for my lord's advantage. My lord, will you spare me one thing more, because that leans hard upon my reputation; and if the jury believe that I ought not to be believed, for I do think the religion of an oath is not tied to a place, but receives its obligation from the appeal we therein make to God, and, I think, if I called God and angels to witness to a falsehood, I ought not to be believed now; but I will tell you as to that; your lordship knows that every man that was committed, was committed for a design of murdering the king; now I did lay hold on that part, for I was to carry my knife close between the paring and the apple; and I did say that if I were an enemy to my lord Russell, and to the Duke of Monmouth, and were called to be a witness, I must have declared in the presence of God and man, that I did not believe either of them had any design to murder the king. I have said this, because I would not walk under the character of a person that would be perjured at the expense of so noble a person's life, and my own soul.