Van Dorn's remarks slackened the tension somewhat, and after considerable banter all around, Perner explained that they would only want accommodation on a hundred thousand copies or so of the first round of the first issue for a few days until subscriptions began to flow in. Frisby, he reminded them, had found no difficulty in getting a million copies without a dollar, and Perner felt sure that, with the present competition, almost any of the big printing-houses would hug their knees, as Barry had put it, to get the work. There would be some small bills for stationery and composition right at the start, perhaps some for the engraving. These they would discount and settle on presentation. "We'll have to pay our advertising man's salary, too," he said, "and with this scheme we want to get a good, energetic man and start him out soliciting at the earliest possible moment. He can get enough contracts on the basis of even a million circulation to pay for all the rounds of the first issue, and we can use those contracts as a basis of credit, too, if we have to." This remark created a visible sensation and a fresh regard for Perner's business experience and energy, which was gradually becoming the backbone of the whole enterprise. Barrifield meantime had pulled himself together and was smoking with his usual deliberation. "Boys," he said, "we've got the biggest thing on earth. We could win either way, hands down--either with premiums or cash for names. But we want to be certain--certain! We don't want any possibility of failure. And to make assurance doubly sure, I am in favor of using both." This made something of a sensation. Perner showed combative tendencies. "We can't afford it, Barry," he said with conviction. "We are already giving twenty-five cents out of our dollar to the fellow who sends the names, and if we give even fifty cents more for a premium we'll have only twenty-five cents left." Barrifield leaned back and closed his eyes. "We could afford it," he said, "if we didn't have five cents left. Counting even only a million and a half a year return from the advertising, we could, by producing the papers in such quantity, still pay all expenses and have a hundred thousand or so apiece left at the end of the year. It isn't a good plan to try to make too much the first year. It invites competition. I believe in going moderately and being sure--don't you, fellows?" turning to Van Dorn and Livingstone. Van Dorn looked over at Perner anxiously. "I shouldn't wonder if Barry was right, old man," he said in a conciliatory tone. "We don't have to pay for premiums, you know, until we have money coming in to do it with," added Barrifield. "That's so," said Livingstone,--"that's so! We'll have both! Suppose we go now, fellows," he added, rather anxiously; "I've got a letter to write." "Stony's always got a letter to write," commented Van Dorn. The others nodded, but said nothing.