Mr. Baker has deducted operating expenses, repairs, and a liberal allowance for depreciation, but he has not allowed for fair interest upon the capital invested in the cars, a charge amounting to $650,000 a year which should be deducted from the $2,800,000 in order to get the portion of the mileage payment which is really equivalent to “an old-fashioned cash rebate,”—an article that is not so old-fashioned, however, as to be out of use, by any means, as we have seen. Wherever it serves their purposes the car-lines share their rebates with important shippers. This has been of special service in inducing large shippers like the fruit growers of California and the South to give their trade to the profit-sharing car-lines. The car-lines would pay shippers a bonus on condition that such shippers would call on the railroad for the cars of the agreeing car-line. Both refrigerator lines and stock car-lines use this method. Sometimes half the mileage is paid to the favored shipper. Sometimes $10 or $15 or even $25 and $35 a car is paid back to the shipper by the car-line, which is of course a rebate pure and simple, and has precisely the same effect when paid by the car-line as if paid by the railroad directly to the shipper. The Santa Fe car-line found it necessary to give a rebate of $25 a car in California in order to get traffic in competition with the Armour Car-Lines and on shipments going beyond Chicago the rebate that seemed necessary to get business was $35 a car. So Mr. Leeds, the manager of the Santa Fe car-line testified in April 1904 before the Interstate Commerce Commission. Part of Mr. Leed’s testimony in answer to the questions of the Commission and of its counsel Mr. Marchand was as follows:[288] “MR. LEEDS. This is the first year that we entered into the deciduous fruit business in Northern California, and I met the competition which we found there when we began business. “MR. MARCHAND. What competition? “MR. LEEDS. I think it amounts to $25 a car. “MR. MARCHAND. $25 a car? “MR. LEEDS. Yes, sir. “MR. MARCHAND. By whom? “MR. LEEDS. We had only one competition. “MR. MARCHAND. Who was your competitor? “MR. LEEDS. The Armour Car-Line. “MR. MARCHAND. And it was necessary to give $25 or more in order to secure the traffic—was that your idea? “MR. LEEDS. I believed so. “COMMISSIONER CLEMENTS. Uniformly $25 a car? “MR. LEEDS. I think there would be some exception, as to business farther east than Chicago. “COMMISSIONER CLEMENTS. Would it be more than that? “MR. LEEDS. Yes, sir. “COMMISSIONER CLEMENTS. What on Eastern business? “MR. LEEDS. An additional $10. “COMMISSIONER CLEMENTS. $35? “MR. LEEDS. Yes, sir. “COMMISSIONER CLEMENTS. You pay $25 back to Chicago and points west of Chicago? “MR. LEEDS. Yes, sir. “COMMISSIONER CLEMENTS. And $35 to points east of Chicago? “MR. LEEDS. That is what it would amount to. “COMMISSIONER PROUTY. Do you agree to do that before the shipment is made, or afterwards?