These objectors go on to say, that provided they should allow there is an existence of spirits, yet that would be still no argument how magic should subsist, because they deny that it is impossible for a man in his body to have a commerce, much less make a contract, with spirits; but here again the refuters allege they have both experience and reason on their sides. As a joint argument of reason and experience, they tell you, that the numerous witches which have in all countries been arraigned and condemned upon this occasion, are evident testimonies of this commerce and contract being held and made with spirits. They pretend to say, that these objectors call not their, the refuters, judgment so much in question, who contend that there is a magic art, as they call in question the judgment of all the wisest legislative powers in Christendom, who have universally agreed in enacting penal laws against such capital offenders. But here the objectors return and say, that it being impossible for us to show the manner how such a contract should be made, we can never, but without reason, believe a thing to be, of which we can form no perfect idea. The refuters, on the other hand, reply with the learned Father le Brune, it is manifest that we can see but two sorts of beings, spirits and bodies; and that since we can reason but according to our ideas, we ought to ascribe to spirits what cannot be produced by bodies. Indeed the author of the Republic of Learning, in the month of August, anno 1686, has given us a rough draught for writing a good tract of witchcraft, which he looks upon as a desideratum; where among other things, he writes thus: Since this age is the true time of systems, one should be contrived concerning the commerce that may be betwixt demons and men.