We made an agreement with the Empire Transportation Company for shipments over the Pennsylvania Railroad on behalf of the Pennsylvania interests, which were then owned by the Standard Oil Company, simply because there was no alternative. It was the only vehicle by which these Pittsburg refineries and the Philadelphia refineries carried their crude oil over the Pennsylvania Railroad. There was no other medium by which business could be done over the Pennsylvania Railroad, except through the Empire Transportation Company, a subsidiary company of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company. The Empire Transportation Company was not only the owner of pipe-lines in the Oil Regions, and tank-cars on the Pennsylvania Railroad, but also of refineries at Philadelphia and New York, and to that extent were our competitors. We, _having no interest whatever in transportation_,[55] naturally felt jealous of the Empire Transportation Company, and drew the attention of the northern lines. By that I mean the New York Central and the Erie railroads. With the peculiar position of the oil business on the Pennsylvania Railroad, their attention was called to this very soon after the Empire Transportation Company began the business of refining. The position taken by the two Northern trunk lines in their intercourse with the Pennsylvania Railroad, as was admitted by Mr. Cassatt in his testimony, and stated to me by the representatives of the two Northern roads, Mr. Vanderbilt and Mr. Jewett, was that it was unfair to them that the Pennsylvania Railroad did not divest itself of the manufacturing business. Backed by the Erie and Central, Mr. Rockefeller, in the spring of 1877, finally told Mr. Cassatt that he would no longer send any of his freight over the Pennsylvania unless the Empire gave up its refineries. The Pennsylvania refused to compel the Empire to this course. According to Mr. Potts’s own story, the road was partially goaded to its decision by a demand for more rebates, which came from Mr. Rockefeller at about the time he pronounced his ultimatum on the Empire. “They swooped upon the railways,” says Colonel Potts, “with a demand for a vast increase in their rebate. They threatened, they pleaded, it has been said they purchased—however that may be, they conquered. Minor officials intrusted with the vast power of according secret rates conceded all they were asked to do, even to concealing from their superiors for months the real nature of their illegal agreements.” Probably it was at this time that there took place the little scene between Mr. Vanderbilt and Mr. Rockefeller and his colleagues, of which the former told the Hepburn Commission in 1879. The Standard people were after more rebates. They affirmed other roads were giving larger rebates than Mr. Vanderbilt, and that their contract with him obliged him to give as much as anybody else did.