_Q._ In case you could take the refineries all in, the railroads proposed to give you a rebate upon their freight charges? _A._ No, sir; it was not put in that form; we were to put the refineries all in, upon the same terms; it was the understanding with the railroad companies that we were to have a rebate; there was no rebate given in consideration of our putting the companies all in, but we told them we would do it; the contract with the railroad companies was with us. _Q._ But if you did form a company composed of the proprietors of all these refineries, you were to have a rebate upon your freight charges? _A._ No; we were to have the rebate anyhow; but were to give all the refineries the privilege of coming in. _Q._ You were to have the rebate whether they came in or not? _A._ Yes, sir. _Q._ Were you to have a rebate upon the same freight charges that had been in existence before? _A._ No; the whole object of the railroad authorities was to get better freight prices. * * * * * _Q._ What effect was this arrangement to have upon the producer or upon the refineries that did not go into your combination? _A._ According to our opinion of it that is the way we have got into this trouble; we have been misconstrued and misrepresented as to our purposes all over the country; the whole object was, and our whole talk was, as far as any of my friends came into the matter, or as far as I myself was concerned, that the producers should receive a better price for their oil; we calculated to get five or six dollars a barrel for crude oil; that was from the beginning of our talk until the end of it; we had not our company organised, or at least the organisation was not completed, nor the contract signed, until all these disturbances commenced to be gotten up; we thought the matter would quiet down and we would get a chance to explain our position and put ourselves right; we asked for the opportunity to do so; we have evidence of that in the telegrams we sent, and I can say, under oath, that they were sent in good faith; there was never an idea in my mind that they were not.... I will state further that this matter was discussed with Mr. Scott by myself, personally, and in very great length, and also with Mr. Potts, who never has had any interest and never any part in this contract, and who spoke of this very matter from the start, expressing the opinion that it could not succeed unless the producers were taken care of. That was understood by us all from the start in every discussion we had, and by the railroad people as far as I heard from them. I can only answer for the railroad people from the conversation I had personally with Mr. Scott and Mr. Potts, in which it was perfectly understood that we could not succeed in carrying out these measures for our own benefit