_A._ Well, sir, in the agreement you will observe that the maximum rebates and maximum rates are stated. These maximum rebates were exceptions to the rule, which is a cardinal principle in the contract. The actual rates were to be kept as near to net rates as possible. Moreover, this was a contract which, before it was to go into effect, would have been a contract with the producer as well as the refiner. _Q._ Does this contract show that? _A._ The draft of a contract which I have presented to the committee, and which was to have been entered into with the producers before the contracts with the railroad companies went into operation, shows that. _Q._ Does this contract say that anything was to be done in behalf of the producer before it was to go into operation? _A._ Not on the face of the contract; it was only a condition on which it was delivered to me. _Q._ A written condition so that it would become a part of the contract? _A._ It was a part of the contract. _Q._ I asked you whether there was anything in writing? _A._ I said there was nothing in writing on the face of the contract, but nevertheless it was an essential part of it. _Q._ It seems to be essential now that it should be a part of the contract? _A._ It was all the time so considered from the beginning. By Mr. Hambleton. _Q._ Was this draft of a contract with the producers drawn prior to the execution of the railroad contracts? _A._ Yes, sir, the draft was drawn prior to that. By the Chairman. _Q._ What is the date of that pencilled draft of a contract? _A._ I could not give you the date of it; it was written in the office of the Lake Shore Railroad Company. _Q._ At what place? _A._ New York. _Q._ State as near as you can the date? _A._ I should say it was probably in December; either late in December or in the beginning of January, probably in December; indeed, I am very confident it was before I went home at Christmas. _Q._ Has any copy of this ever been printed? _A._ No, sir. _Q._ This is all there was of it? _A._ Yes, except discussion; we discussed the matter. _Q._ I mean all there was committed to writing? _A._ Yes, sir, all there was then committed to writing. _Q._ Is it all there was as far as making out a contract is concerned? _A._ Yes, sir. _Q._ Was this submitted to the producers as a body or individually? _A._ We were very anxious to submit it to the producers, and I asked them to appoint a committee that we might do it, but they had got up such an excitement at the time that nothing was practicable. _Q._ When was that? _A._ Before the last of these contracts was signed. _Q._ Can you give the dates at all? _A._ I cannot give the dates, but the contract with the Lake Shore road had not been signed at the time. _Q._ What producers did you ask to call a meeting?