The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 1Madison, James
History
The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 1
Madison, James
Constitutional law -- United States; Constitutions -- United States; United States. Constitution
M^r Elseworth 2^{ded} by M^r Gorham, moves to alter it so as to run
"that the Government of the United States ought to consist of a supreme
legislative, Executive and Judiciary." This alteration he said would
drop the word _national_, and retain the proper title "the United
States." He could not admit the doctrine that a breach of any of the
federal articles could dissolve the whole. It would be highly dangerous
not to consider the Confederation as still subsisting. He wished also
the plan of the Convention to go forth as an amendment of the articles
of the Confederation, since under this idea the authority of the
Legislatures could ratify it. If they are unwilling, the people will be
so too. If the plan goes forth to the people for ratification several
succeeding Conventions within the States would be unavoidable. He did
not like these conventions. They were better fitted to pull down than to
build up Constitutions.
M^r Randolph. did not object to the change of expression, but apprised
the gentleman who wished for it that he did not admit it for the reasons
assigned; particularly that of getting rid of a reference to the people
for ratification. The motion of M^r Elsew^{th} was acquiesced in nem:
con:
The 2^d Resol: "that the National Legislature ought to consist of two
branches" taken up, the word "national" struck out as of course.
_M^r Lansing._ observed that the true question here was, whether the
Convention would adhere to or depart from the foundation of the present
Confederacy; and moved instead of the 2^d Resolution, "that the powers
of Legislation be vested in the U. States in Congress." He had already
assigned two reasons ag^{st} such an innovation as was proposed: 1. the
want of competent powers in the Convention.--2. the state of the public
mind. It had been observed by (M^r Madison) in discussing the first
point, that in two States the Delegates to Cong^s were chosen by the
people. Notwithstanding the first appearance of this remark, it had in
fact no weight, as the Delegates however chosen, did not represent the
people merely as so many individuals; but as forming a Sovereign State.
(Mr. Randolph) put it, he said, on its true footing namely that the
public safety superseded the scruple arising from the review of our
powers. But in order to feel the force of this consideration, the same
impression must be had of the public danger. He had not himself the same
impression, and could not therefore dismiss his scruple. (M^r Wilson)
contended that as the Convention were only to recommend, they might
recommend what they pleased. He differed much from him. Any act whatever
of so respectable a body must have a great effect, and if it does not
succeed, will be a source of great dissentions. He admitted that there
was no certain criterion of the Public mind on the subject. He therefore
recurred to the evidence of it given by the opposition in the States to
the scheme of an Impost. It could not be expected that those possessing
Public-domain text, read in full here on John Shaqi.
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