M^r Sherman Supposed that it was the wish of every one that some Gen^l Gov^t should be established. An equal vote in the 2^d branch would, he thought, be most likely to give it the necessary vigor. The small States have more vigor in their Gov^{ts} than the large ones, the more influence therefore the large ones have, the weaker will be the Gov^t. In the large States it will be most difficult to collect the real & fair sense of the people. Fallacy & undue influence will be practised with most success; and improper men will most easily get into office. If they vote by States in the 2^d branch, and each State has an equal vote, there must be always a majority of States as well as a majority of the people on the side of public measures, & the Gov^t will have decision and efficacy. If this be not the case in the 2^d branch there may be a majority of States ag^{st} public measures, and the difficulty of compelling them to abide by the public determination, will render the Government feebler than it has ever yet been. M^r Wilson was not deficient in a conciliating temper, but firmness was sometimes a duty of higher obligation. Conciliation was also misapplied in this instance. It was pursued here rather among the Representatives, than among the Constituents; and it w^d be of little consequence if not established among the latter; and there could be little hope of its being established among them if the foundation should not be laid in justice and right. On Question shall the words stand as part of the Report? Mass^{ts} div^d. Con^t ay. N. Y. ay. N. J, ay. P^a no. Del. ay. M^d ay. V^a no. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. div^d (Note. several votes were given here in the affirmative or were div^d because another final question was to be taken on the whole report.) M^r Gerry[127] thought it would be proper to proceed to enumerate & define the powers to be vested in the Gen^l Gov^t before a question on the report should be taken as to the rule of representation in the 2^d branch. [127] King gives the three speeches of Gerry, Madison and Patterson as follows: "_Gerry._ I agree to the measure, provided that the first Br. (H. of Reps.) shall originate money bills and money appropriations. The prejudices as well as the interest of our Constituents must be regarded--two or three thousand men are in office in the States--their influence will be in favor of an Equality of votes among the States.