M^r Madison moved to strike out "and punishment &c." M^r Mason doubts the safety of it, considering the strict rule of construction in criminal cases. He doubted also the propriety of taking the power in all these cases wholly from the States. M^r Govern^r Morris thought it would be necessary to extend the authority further, so as to provide for the punishment of counterfeiting in general. Bills of exchange for example might be forged in one State and carried into another. It was suggested by some other member that _foreign_ paper might be counterfeited by Citizens; and that it might be politic to provide by national authority for the punishment of it. M^r Randolph did not conceive that expunging "the punishment" would be a constructive exclusion of the power. He doubted only the efficacy of the word "declare." M^r Wilson was in favor of the motion. Strictness was not necessary in giving authority to enact penal laws; though necessary in enacting & expounding them. On motion for striking out "and punishment" as moved by M^r Madison N.H. no. Mass. ay. C^t no. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d no. V^a ay. N.C. ay. S.C. ay. Geo. ay. M^r Gov^r Morris moved to strike out "declare the law" and insert "punish" before "piracies," and on the question. N.H. ay. Mass. ay. C^t no. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d ay. V^a no. N.C. no. S.C. ay. Geo. ay. M^r Madison & M^r Randolph moved to insert "define &," before "punish." M^r Wilson thought "felonies" sufficiently defined by common law. M^r Dickenson concurred with M^r Wilson. M^r Mercer was in favor of the amendment. M^r Madison. Felony at common law is vague. It is also defective. One defect is supplied by Stat: of Anne as to running away with vessels which at co[~m]on law was a breach of trust only. Besides no foreign law should be a standard farther than is expressly adopted. If the laws of the States were to prevail on this subject, the Citizens of different States would be subject to different punishments for the same offence at Sea. There would be neither uniformity nor stability in the law--The proper remedy for all these difficulties was to vest the power proposed by the term "define" in the Nat^l legislature. M^r Gov^r Morris would prefer _designate_ to _define_, the latter being as he conceived, limited to the preexisting meaning. It was said by others to be applicable to the creating of offences also, and therefore suited the case both of felonies & of piracies. The motion of M^r M. & M^r R. was agreed to. M^r Elseworth enlarged the motion so as to read "to define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the U. States, and offences ag^{st} the law of Nations" which was agreed to nem. con. "To subdue a rebellion in any State, on the application of its legislature" M^r Pinkney moved to strike out, "on the application of its legislature". M^r Gov^r Morris 2^{ds}.