M^r Elseworth, considered the idea of a select militia as impracticable; & if it were not it would be followed by a ruinous declension of the great body of the Militia. The States would never submit to the same militia laws. Three or four shillings as a penalty will enforce better obedience in New England, than forty lashes in some other places. M^r Pinkney thought the power such an one as could not be abused, and that the States would see the necessity of surrendering it. He had however but a scanty faith in Militia. There must be also a real military force. This alone can effectually answer the purpose. The United States had been making an experiment without it, and we see the consequence in their rapid approaches toward anarchy.[34] [34] This had reference to the disorders particularly that had occurred in Massach^{ts} which had called for the interposition of the federal troops.--Madison's Note. M^r Sherman, took notice that the States might want their militia for defence ag^{st} invasions and insurrections, and for enforcing obedience to their laws. They will not give up this point. In giving up that of taxation, they retain a concurrent power of raising money for their own use. M^r Gerry thought this the last point remaining to be surrendered. If it be agreed to by the Convention, the plan will have as black a mark as was set on Cain. He had no such confidence in the Gen^l Gov^t as some gentlemen possessed, and believed it would be found that the States have not. Col. Mason, thought there was great weight in the remarks of M^r Sherman, and moved an exception to his motion "of such part of the militia as might be required by the States for their own use." M^r Read doubted the propriety of leaving the appointment of the Militia officers in the States. In some States they are elected by the Legislatures; in others by the people themselves. He thought at least an appointment by the State Executives ought to be insisted on. On committing to the grand Committee last appointed, the latter motion of Col. Mason, & the original one revived by Ge^l Pinkney N. H. ay. Mas. ay. C^t no. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d div^d. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay. Adjourned. MONDAY AUGUST 20. IN CONVENTION M^r Pinkney submitted to the House, in order to be referred to the Committee of detail, the following propositions--"Each House shall be the judge of its own privileges, and shall have authority to punish by imprisonment every person violating the same, or who, in the place where the Legislature may be sitting and during the time of its Session, shall threaten any of its members for any thing said or done in the House; or who shall assault any of them therefor--or who shall assault or arrest any witness or other person ordered to attend either of the Houses in his way going or returning; or who shall rescue any person arrested by their order."