The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2Madison, James
History
The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2
Madison, James
Constitutional law -- United States; Constitutions -- United States; United States. Constitution
M^r Wilson moved to insert, "two thirds of" before the words "several
States"--on which amendment to the motion of M^r Sherman
N. H. ay. Mas. no. C^t no. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d ay.
V^a ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.
M^r Wilson then moved to insert "three fourths of" before "the several
Sts." which was agreed to nem: con:
M^r Madison moved to postpone the consideration of the amended
proposition in order to take up the following,
"The Legislature of the U. S. whenever two thirds of both Houses
shall deem necessary, or on the application of two thirds of the
Legislatures of the several States, shall propose amendments to
this Constitution, which shall be valid to all intents and
purposes as part thereof, when the same shall have been ratified
by three fourths at least of the Legislatures of the several
States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as one or
the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the
Legislature of the U.S:"
M^r Hamilton 2^{ded} the motion.
M^r Rutlidge said he never could agree to give a power by which the
articles relating to slaves might be altered by the States not
interested in that property and prejudiced against it. In order to
obviate this objection, these words were added to the proposition:[66]
"provided that no amendments which may be made prior to the year 1808
shall in any manner affect the 4 & 5 sections of the VII article."--The
postponement being agreed to,
[66] The Printed Journal makes the succeeding proviso as to
sections 4 & 5, of the art: VII moved by M^r Rutlidge, part
of the proposition of M^r Madison.--Madison's Note.
On the question on the proposition of M^r Madison & M^r Hamilton as
amended
N. H. div^d. Mas. ay. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. no. M^d ay.
V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.
M^r Gerry moved to reconsider Art: XXI and XXII. from the latter of
which "for the approbation of Cong^s" had been struck out. He objected
to proceeding to change the Government without the approbation of
Congress, as being improper and giving just umbrage to that body: He
repeated his objections also to an annulment of the confederation with
so little scruple or formality.
M^r Hamilton concurred with M^r Gerry as to the indecorum of not
requiring the approbation of Congress. He considered this as a necessary
ingredient in the transaction. He thought it wrong also to allow nine
States as provided by Art XXI. to institute a new Government on the
ruins of the existing one. He w^d propose as a better modification of
the two articles (XXI & XXII) that the plan should be sent to Congress
in order that the same if approved by them, may be communicated to the
State Legislatures, to the end that they may refer it to State
conventions; each Legislature declaring that if the Convention of the
State should think the plan ought to take effect among nine ratifying
States, the same sh^d take effect accordingly.
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