The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2Madison, James
History
The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2
Madison, James
Constitutional law -- United States; Constitutions -- United States; United States. Constitution
M^r Gorham. Some States will say that nine States shall be sufficient to
establish the plan, others will require unanimity for the purpose. And
the different and conditional ratifications will defeat the plan
altogether.
M^r Hamilton. No Convention convinced of the necessity of the plan will
refuse to give it effect on the adoption by nine States. He thought this
mode less exceptionable than the one proposed in the article, while it
would attain the same end.
M^r Fitzimmons remarked that the words "for their approbation" had been
struck out in order to save Congress from the necessity of an Act
inconsistent with the Articles of Confederation under which they held
their authority.
M^r Randolph declared, if no change should be made in this part of the
plan, he should be obliged to dissent from the whole of it. He had from
the beginning he said been convinced that radical changes in the system
of the Union were necessary. Under this conviction he had brought
forward a set of republican propositions as the basis and outline of a
reform. These Republican propositions had however, much to his regret,
been widely, and, in his opinion, irreconcileably departed from. In this
state of things it was his idea and he accordingly meant to propose,
that the State Conventions sh^d be at liberty to offer amendments to the
plan; and that these should be submitted to a second General Convention,
with full power to settle the Constitution finally. He did not expect to
succeed in this proposition, but the discharge of his duty in making the
attempt, would give quiet to his own mind.
M^r Wilson was against a reconsideration for any of the purposes which
had been mentioned.
M^r King thought it would be more respectful to Congress to submit the
plan generally to them; than in such a form as expressly and necessarily
to require their approbation or disapprobation. The assent of nine
States he considered as sufficient; and that it was more proper to make
this a part of the Constitution itself, than to provide for it by a
supplemental or distinct recommendation.
M^r Gerry urged the indecency and pernicious tendency of dissolving in
so slight a manner, the solemn obligations of the articles of
confederation. If nine out of thirteen can dissolve the compact. Six out
of nine will be just as able to dissolve the new one hereafter.
M^r Sherman was in favor of M^r King's idea of submitting the plan
generally to Congress. He thought nine States ought to be made
sufficient: but that it would be best to make it a separate act and in
some such form as that intimated by Col: Hamilton, than to make it a
particular article of the Constitution.
On the question for reconsidering the two articles, XXI & XXII--
N. H. div^d. Mas. no. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. ay. M^d ay.
V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. ay.
M^r Hamilton then moved to postpone art XXI in order to take up the
following, containing the ideas he had above expressed, viz
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