Then, by all that is sacred (Socrates continued), do not keep us in the dark, but tell us in what way do you propose first to benefit the state? what is your starting-point? (8) When Glaucon remained with sealed lips, as if he were now for the first time debating what this starting-point should be, Socrates continued: I presume, if you wished to improve a friend's estate, you would endeavour to do so by adding to its wealth, would you not? So here, maybe, you will try to add to the wealth of the state? (8) Or, "tell us what your starting-point will be in the path of benefaction." Most decidedly (he answered). Soc. And we may take it the state will grow wealthier in proportion as her revenues increase? Glauc. That seems probable, at any rate. Soc. Then would you kindly tell us from what sources the revenues of the state are at present derived, and what is their present magnitude? No doubt you have gone carefully into the question, so that if any of these are failing you may make up the deficit, or if neglected for any reason, make some new provision. (9) (9) Or, "or if others have dropped out or been negligently overlooked, you may replace them." Glauc. Nay, to speak the truth, these are matters I have not thoroughly gone into. Never mind (he said) if you have omitted the point; but you might oblige us by running through the items or heads of expenditure. Obviously you propose to remove all those which are superfluous? Glauc. Well, no. Upon my word I have not had time to look into that side of the matter either as yet. Soc. Then we will postpone for the present the problem of making the state wealthier; obviously without knowing the outgoings and the incomings it would be impossible to deal with the matter seriously. But, Socrates (Glaucon remarked), it is possible to enrich the state out of the pockets of her enemies! Yes, to be sure, considerably (answered Socrates), in the event of getting the better of them; but in the event of being worsted, it is also possible to lose what we have got. A true observation (he replied). And therefore (proceeded Socrates), before he makes up his mind with what enemy to go to war, a statesman should know the relative powers of his own city and the adversary's, so that, in case the superiority be on his own side, he may throw the weight of his advice into the scale of undertaking war; but if the opposite he may plead in favour of exercising caution. You are right (he answered). Soc. Then would you for our benefit enumerate the land and naval forces first of Athens and then of our opponents? Glauc. Pardon me. I could not tell you them off-hand at a moment's notice. Or (added Socrates), if you have got the figures on paper, you might produce them. I cannot tell how anxious I am to hear your statement. Glauc. No, I assure you, I have not got them even on paper yet.