We know that the rest of the Hellenes deal with this relationship in different ways, either after the manner of the Boeotians, (22) where man and boy are intimately united by a bond like that of wedlock, or after the manner of the Eleians, where the fruition of beauty is an act of grace; whilst there are others who would absolutely debar the lover from all conversation (23) and discourse with the beloved. (22) See Xen. "Symp." viii. 34; Plato, "Symp." 182 B (Jowett, II. p. 33). (23) {dialegesthai} came to mean philosophic discussion and debate. Is the author thinking of Socrates? See "Mem." I. ii. 35; IV. v. 12. Lycurgus adopted a system opposed to all of these alike. Given that some one, himself being all that a man ought to be, should in admiration of a boy's soul (24) endeavour to discover in him a true friend without reproach, and to consort with him--this was a relationship which Lycurgus commended, and indeed regarded as the noblest type of bringing up. But if, as was evident, it was not an attachment to the soul, but a yearning merely towards the body, he stamped this thing as foul and horrible; and with this result, to the credit of Lycurgus be it said, that in Lacedaemon the relationship of lover and beloved is like that of parent and child or brother and brother where carnal appetite is in abeyance. (24) See Xen. "Symp." viii. 35; Plut. "Lycurg." 18. That this, however, which is the fact, should be scarcely credited in some quarters does not surprise me, seeing that in many states the laws (25) do not oppose the desires in question. (25) I.e. "law and custom." I have now described the two chief methods of education in vogue; that is to say, the Lacedaemonian as contrasted with that of the rest of Hellas, and I leave it to the judgment of him whom it may concern, which of the two has produced the finer type of men. And by finer I mean the better disciplined, the more modest and reverential, and, in matters where self-restraint is a virtue, the more continent. III Coming to the critical period at which a boy ceases to be a boy and becomes a youth, (1) we find that it is just then that the rest of the world proceed to emancipate their children from the private tutor and the schoolmaster, and, without substituting any further ruler, are content to launch them into absolute independence. (1) {eis to meirakiousthai}, "with reference to hobbledehoy-hood." Cobet erases the phrase as post-Xenophontine.