About this time, Benjamin and John Collins had another interview,--differing somewhat from the one already described, as the following dialogue will show:-- "What book is this, Ben?" inquired John, taking up one from the table. "It is an old English Grammar which I came across the other day," answered Benjamin. "It has two chapters, near the close, on Rhetoric and Logic, that are valuable." "Valuable to you, perhaps, but not to me," said John. "What shall I ever want of Rhetoric or Logic?" "Everybody ought to know something about them," answered Benjamin. "They have already helped me, in connection with the works of Shaftesbury, to understand some things about religion better. I have believed some doctrines just because my parents taught me so." "Then you do not believe all that you have been taught about religion, if I understand you?" "No, I am free to say that I do not. There is neither reason nor wisdom in portions of the creed of the Church." "Why, Ben, you surprise me. You are getting to be quite infidel for a boy. It won't do for you to read Logic and Shaftesbury any more, if you are so easily upset by them." "Made to understand better by them what is right and what is wrong," answered Benjamin. "The fact is, very few persons think for themselves. They are religious because they are so instructed. They embrace the religion of their parents without asking themselves what is true or false." "There is not much danger that you will do that," said John. "Present appearances rather indicate that the religious opinions of your father will be blown sky-high,"--though John did not mean quite so much as his language denotes. "You do not understand me. I respect my parents and their religious opinions, though I doubt some of the doctrines they have taught, and which I never carefully examined until recently." "I must go," said John; "at another time, I will hear more;"--and he hurried away to his business, which was waiting for him. Benjamin had read carefully the works of Collins and Shaftesbury, which were well suited to unsettle his religious belief. At the time of this interview, he was really a doubter, though not avowedly opposed to religion. The fact shows the necessity of using care in selecting books to be read, and the danger of tampering with those that speak lightly of the Gospel. Even a mind as strong as that of Benjamin was warped by the sophistries of such a book, and it was some years before he recovered wholly from the sad effects of such reading. His early religious culture, however, and his disposition and ability to perceive the truth, finally saved him from the abyss of infidelity, as will appear more evident in the pages that follow. CHAPTER XII. THE NEWSPAPER.