Commissioner Wright: "Then the American Railway Union did not advise a sympathetic strike of all organizations." Mr. Howard: "No, sir. Mr. Debs left that question to the judgment and conscience of the men themselves." Commissioner Wright: "Was the action of the convention of June 12 a strike?" Mr. Howard: "Well, it was called a strike." Commissioner Worthington: "Was the communication you referred to presented to the general managers?" Mr. Howard: "Yes, sir, and returned without an answer further than a statement that the General Managers' Association had no business to transact with the American Railway Union or its representatives." Mr. Kernan: "It is charged that your organization, like others, encouraged its members to persistently interfere with and prevent unorganized labor from taking positions given up by their striking members. Is that charge true?" Mr. Howard: "It cannot be shown in one instance that anything of the kind has been done." Commissioner Kernan: "You won't go so far as to say that no interference of the sort alluded to has ever been engaged in?" Mr. Howard: "Certainly not. I mean that such interference was not authorized or countenanced by the union." Commissioner Kernan: "Did you take any steps to prevent such interference?" Mr. Howard: "We have taken the ground that when we go out on strike not to interfere with any of the new men the companies may employ." Commissioner Kernan: "You do countenance advice to such men not to take the places of strikers?" Mr. Howard: "Oh, yes. We claim the right to ask new men not to take our places." Mr. Kernan: "Is it not a fact that such interviews usually result in violence?" Mr. Howard: "No. I think the rule is to the contrary. We go no further than to request the men to quit work and to commit no violence." Commissioner Kernan: "Is there any punishment for violation of that rule?" Mr. Howard: "No. No organization has any power to punish a member for violation of such rule except by expulsion. We leave the punishment of such cases to the civil authorities." Commissioner Kernan: "Don't you think some steps should be taken by labor unions to punish their members who violate the rules in that respect?" Mr. Howard: "Yes, sir, I do, and we started out to do so here during the strike but the trouble assumed such vast proportions that it was impossible to do anything in that direction. In the case of the Great Northern strike we appointed committees to guard the company's property, and the men were instructed to shoot anyone found in the act of destroying same." Commissioner Kernan: "What, as a rule has been your experience in strikes where violence was restored to?" Mr. Howard: "The men have always been defeated." Commissioner Kernan: "Then a resort to violence is rather detrimental to the cause of the strikers?" Mr. Howard: "Decidedly so. We want public opinion with us in a strike."