JR: The federal government could have been doing something because they didn’t want anyone to know what this was ... they was using dummies in those damned things ... they could use remote control. DS: So you thought that it could have been an experimental craft? JR: After I came to town showed Frank Willis and his son (he’s dead) ... the Blue Moon beer joint over on the old Dexter highway. We was there until two o’clock in the morning ... I had the jeep behind my car. DS: Did you still have the scrap in the jeep? JR: Yeah. I showed it to him. He said I would just keep my mouth shut ... he said hell there is no telling where that come from. DS: So you didn’t think it was from outer space? JR: No. We didn’t even think about outer space back then... DS: When was the first time that you thought that maybe this was something more? JR: It was about three weeks ... it came out that a spaceship had crashed at Roswell ... about three weeks. But it could have been out longer than that there but see I worked in Carlsbad... DS: But you first saw there had been a newspaper article about three weeks after... JR: Oh hell it was two or three weeks before I caught up on it ... a spaceship ... what I hear is they guarded that place for a long time out there ... because me and another fellow went out there and you couldn’t get ... they had the roads sealed off ... it was a month or so after... DS: And they still had it cordoned off. JR: The MPs and stuff were still on the road. They wouldn’t let nobody go out there... DS: If a person were to drive out there today ... going north out of town ... are we talking 285? JR: No. Highway 48. You go out 48. You go out here to the truck route, hit 48 and ... and it’s about forty some miles out in there ... (And no talks about the car being stolen in 1951 when the car with the debris was stolen...) ...I would say 18 inches and 30 inches long ... strips off the edge of it ... it was a heavy material but it didn’t have no ridges ... it was put together with some kind of solder like stuff ... no bumps, no nothing in it ... it wasn’t ... it was about as heavy as duraluminum ... it wasn’t as brittle ... you could take a small piece and it was flexible ... (then discuss the stealing of the car with a wrecker and the material was locked in the trunk of the car. And then discuss the break in of the house where the last of the pieces were stolen about eight years ago ... 1985). DS: Was there a storm that night?” JR: Yeah. There sure was. It was a whale of a storm. DS: Did you hear anything unusual? Did you hear ... between the cracks of thunder... JR: Well, it lit up the sky when it came down. It lit up the damned ... we thought at first that it was falling star or something. And electric lightning ... man it was something. DS: You heard something and you saw something...