COOK. I was sent for, from the _Exchange_, to go and disperse a Meeting in _Gracechurch-Street_, where I saw _Mr. Penn_ speaking to the People, but I could not hear what he said, because of the Noise; I endeavoured to make way to take him, but I could not get to him for the Crowd of People; upon which _Capt. Mead_ came to me, about the Kennel of the Street, and desired me to let him go on; for when he had done, he would bring _Mr. Penn_ to me. COURT. What Number do you think might be there? COOK. About three or four Hundred People. COURT. Call _Richard Read_, give him his Oath. READ being sworn was ask'd, what do you know concerning the Prisoners at the Bar? READ. My Lord, I went to Gracechurch-Street, where I found a great Crowd of People, and I heard _Mr. Penn_ preach to them; and I saw Capt. Mead speaking to Lieutenant Cook, but what he said, I could not tell. MEAD. What did William Penn say? READ. There was such a great Noise, that I could not tell what he said. MEAD. Jury, observe this Evidence, He saith he heard him Preach, and yet faith, he doth not know what he said. Jury, take notice, he swears now a clean contrary thing to what he swore before the Mayor when we were committed: For now he swears that he saw me in _Gracechurch-Street_, and yet swore before the Mayor, when I was committed, that he did not see me there. I appeal to the Mayor himself, if this be not true. But no Answer was given. COURT. What Number do you think might be there? READ. About four or five hundred. PENN. I desire to know of him what Day it was? READ. The 14th Day of August. PEN. Did he speak to me, or let me know he was there; for I am very sure I never saw him. CLER. Cryer, call ---- ---- into the Court. CLER. Give him his Oath. ---- My Lord, I saw a great Number of People, and Mr. _Penn_ I suppose was speaking; I see him make a Motion with his Hands, and heard some Noise, but could not understand what he said. But for Capt. Mead, I did not see him there. REC. What say you, Mr. _Mead_, were you there? MEAD. It is a Maxim in your own Law, _Nemo tenetur accusare seipsum_, which if it be not true Latin, I am sure it is true English, _That no Man is bound to accuse himself_: And why dost thou offer to ensnare me with such a Question? Doth not this shew thy Malice? Is this like unto a Judge, that ought to be Counsel for the Prisoner at the Bar? REC. Sir, hold your Tongue, I did not go about to ensnare you. PEN. I desire we may come more close to the Point, and that Silence be commanded in the Court. CRY. O yes, all manner of Persons keep Silence upon Pain of Imprisonment--Silence Court.