9. Ráma said:--I see sir, that when our ignorance becomes too gross and solid, it becomes as dull and solid as stone; but tell me O venerable sir, how it becomes as a fixed tree or any other immovable substance. 10. Vasishtha replied:--The human intellect not having attained its perfect state of mindlessness, wherein it may have its supreme happiness and yet falling from its state of mindfulness, remains in the midmost position of a living and immovable plant or of an insensible material substance. (The middle state is called tatastha bháva, which is neither one of perfect sensibility nor impassivity). 11. It is impossible for them to have their liberation, whose organs of the eight senses lie as dormant and dumb and blind and inert in them as in any dull and dirt matter: and if they have any perception, it is that pain only. (The _puryastaka_ are the eight internal and external organs of sense instead of the ten organs _casandria_. By dormancy is meant their want of reason, and muteness and blindness express respectively the want of their faculties of sensation and action, inertness means here the want of mental action). 12. Ráma rejoined:--O sir, that best knowest the knowables! that the intellect which remains as unshaken as a fixed tree, with its reliance in the unity and without its knowledge of duality, approximates its perfection and approaches very near to its liberation (contrary to what thou sayest now, regarding impossibility of the dormant minds arriving to its freedom). 13. Vasishtha replied: Ráma! we call that to be the perpetual liberation of the soul, which follows persuasion of one common entity, after its rational investigation into the natures of all other things and their false appearances. (or else the blind torpidity of the irrational yogi, amounts rather to his bondage to ignorance than the liberation of his soul from it). 14. A man is then only said to have reached to his state of solity _kaivalya_, when he understands the community of all existence in the unity, and forsakes his desire for this thing and that. (But is said in sundry places of this work that the abandonment of the knowledge of the subjective and as well as of the objective, which constitutes the true liberation of the soul; which means the taking of the subject and object of thought and all other duties in nature in one self-existent unity and not to forget them all at once). (So says Sadi, when I turned out duality from my door I came to knowledge of one in all). 15. One is then said to recline in Brahma who is inclined to his spiritual Contemplation, after his investigation of divine knowledge in the sástras, and his discussion on the subject in the company of the learned doctors in divinity. (The unlearned religionist is either a zealot or an _opiniatre--abhakta tatwa jnáni_).