In Berlin, Hitler took to account the Referent Westphal in great anger for sabotaging the law, and only because Guertner acted on behalf of his own staff and only with the greatest effort was it possible to save Westphal. Q. The Heller case which has just been mentioned begins in the transcript, page 1324, English text.[166] What part did Goebbels play in that struggle against the administration of justice? A. Goebbels set the machinery of propaganda to work against the administration of justice. He deluded the public by telling them that the people no longer had any confidence in the judiciary. That was a delusion for the opposite was true. His propaganda machine not only made direct or camouflaged attacks against the judiciary in public and tried to lower their prestige, but he also tried by his art of dialectics in his speeches on the administration of justice quite deliberately to lead the judges astray and to put their consciences as judges to sleep. He coined the concept of the exigency of the State, and said that the courts, too, ought to make that their starting point. For a sentence, first of all expedience was decisive, and only later, perhaps, justice might also be considered. Q. Goebbels’ speech before the members of the People’s Court is contained in Document NG-417, Prosecution Exhibit 23.[167] What were the opportunities at the disposal of those power groups and which they made use of in their struggle against the administration of justice? A. Himmler, Bormann, and Goebbels were the closest confidants of Hitler. They had access to him at any time. For him they represented the uncompromising incarnation of national socialism. He listened to them when they alleged national socialism was being endangered by the administration of justice. The entire apparatus of Party politics, police, and espionage was at their disposal. On the other hand, the Ministry of Justice was entirely isolated. Contact between the ministries, which would have strengthened its position, no longer existed. Q. Here I would like to refer to the verdict of the IMT, English transcript, page 16963[168], and I would like to quote that passage briefly: “As to the first reason for our decision, it is to be observed that from the time that it can be said that a conspiracy to make aggressive war existed the Reich cabinet did not constitute a governing body, but was merely an aggregation of administrative officers subject to the absolute control of Hitler.” Witness, will you continue, please?