Mr. SPECTER. No; before. It is a smooth surface without any what? Mr. KELLERMAN. Without any crack lines. Mr. SPECTER. On the outside? Mr. KELLERMAN. That can be felt. Mr. SPECTER. On the outside? Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right; on the outside of the windshield. Mr. SPECTER. Feel the inside and tell us, first of all, whether it is the same or different from the way you touched it on November 27? Mr. KELLERMAN. On November 27, when I felt the inside of this impact area, I was convinced that I could--that I felt an opening in one of these lines, which was indicative to me that the blow was struck from the inside of the car on this windshield. Mr. SPECTER. Does it feel the same to you today as it did on or about November 27? Mr. KELLERMAN. As a matter of fact, it feels rather smooth today. Mr. SPECTER. It feels somewhat differently today than it felt before? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes; it does. Representative FORD. Could we ask when the red circle was placed on the windshield, if you know? Mr. KELLERMAN. I do not know. Mr. SPECTER. With respect to the shattering which existed on or about November 27, which is within the red circle, could that condition have existed on November 22 after the assassination? Mr. KELLERMAN. Absolutely not. I don't think so. Mr. SPECTER. What is the reason for your expressing your thought that it could not have existed? Mr. KELLERMAN. This automobile is never out of sight of any agent, or even a police officer, before it is used--used or afterward. Let me clarify that. The agent that accompanied these cars to Dallas was with the vehicles from the time they left Washington aboard this plane. One of his many duties outside of keeping it, having this car run perfectly, is that all the equipment is in perfect condition. Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman, what you are saying, then, is there had been no crack in the windshield prior to the time of the shooting? Mr. KELLERMAN. That is correct. Mr. SPECTER. My next question is: Did you observe any crack in the windshield after the shooting on November 22? Mr. KELLERMAN. No. Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any occasion to look for or examine for any crack in the windshield after the shooting? Mr. KELLERMAN. I had no occasion whatsoever. Mr. SPECTER. If the crack in the windshield had been as prominent as it was on or about November 27, 1963, would you have observed it after the shooting on November 22? Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir; I don't think I would have. Senator COOPER. Is it correct then to say that you didn't find any occasion to examine the windshield after you heard the shots? Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right, I did not have the opportunity. Mr. SPECTER. And after the President was removed from the automobile, did you ever go back and examine the car, including the windshield? Mr. KELLERMAN. Not in Dallas; no, sir.