Mr. KELLERMAN. I don't know. Senator COOPER. Let the record show that Congressman Ford has to go to his official duties in the House and that I, Senator Cooper, am now acting as Chairman. (At this point, Representative Ford left the hearing room.) Senator COOPER. Go ahead. Mr. SPECTER. Moving ahead, then, on to the sequences of time as best you can recollect them, Mr. Kellerman, at what time was it ascertained that the President had died and what was the basis of the pronouncement of death. Mr. KELLERMAN. That was on the death certificate, sir. Mr. SPECTER. Did you learn at or about 1 o'clock, while you were at Parkland Hospital, that he had died? Mr. KELLERMAN. I would think so. However, at that time let me say that I wasn't watching any clock too closely and this time was given to me by Dr. Burkley. Mr. SPECTER. Then you have no independent recollection of time at Parkland when the death was announced or pronounced? Mr. KELLERMAN. No. Mr. SPECTER. Now, then, you have specified the time of departure from Parkland Hospital and en route back to Love Field at what, sir? Mr. KELLERMAN. We departed at 4 minutes after 2 from Parkland. Mr. SPECTER. What time did you arrive at the President's plane? Mr. KELLERMAN. 2:14. Mr. SPECTER. What were your next activities? Mr. KELLERMAN. Our next time, we had waited until Judge Sarah Hughes had arrived for the swearing-in ceremonies. Mr. SPECTER. What time did the swearing-in ceremonies occur? Mr. KELLERMAN. 2:37 p.m. Mr. SPECTER. And what time did the plane depart from Dallas? Mr. KELLERMAN. We left at 2:48. Mr. SPECTER. Were you present during the swearing-in ceremonies? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER. In a general way, tell us who else was present there, recognizing that you don't know all the people there. Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes. President Johnson, Mrs. Johnson, Mrs. Kennedy, Malcolm Kilduff. He was the press secretary for that trip. Congressman Thornberry, Congressman Thomas, Marie Fehmer, Mrs. Evelyn Lincoln, Jack Valenti, Bill Moyers, Special Agent Johns. There was another congressional man--I believe his name was Congressman Roberts--Brooks; I am sorry; Congressman Brooks. The picture was taken by Capt. Cecil Stoughton and myself. Mr. SPECTER. What time did the President's plane arrive back at the Washington area? Mr. KELLERMAN. May I look at my notes, sir? Mr. SPECTER. Yes, you may. Identify for us, if you will, what notes you are referring to. Mr. KELLERMAN. 5:58 p.m. This is my report.