Mr. SPECTER. Now, how far behind the President's car did the Presidential followup car follow? Mr. KELLERMAN. Not knowing how far it was behind, I would say, from the practice of that driver that he has, five feet would be a maximum. Mr. SPECTER. What car was in the motorcade immediately behind the President's followup car? Mr. KELLERMAN. That was Vice President Johnson's car then. Mr. SPECTER. What kind of a car was that on that particular day? Mr. KELLERMAN. This was a Lincoln four-door Continental convertible. This was a four-door car, with no top on it. Mr. SPECTER. Is that a special car, also, or is that obtained on the market? Mr. KELLERMAN. This is not a special car; it is a car that is on the market. Mr. SPECTER. What car followed the Vice President's car? Mr. KELLERMAN. The car following his car was a police car. It was driven by a member of the Dallas Police Force, or I just don't recall. I am sorry. Mr. SPECTER. Do you have personal knowledge or detail of the occupants of the Vice President's car? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes; I do. Mr. SPECTER. Who was present there? Mr. KELLERMAN. Special Agent Rufus Youngblood sat in the front seat on the right side. In back of him on the right side and the rear was the then Vice President Johnson. Next to him was Mrs. Johnson, and next to Mrs. Johnson was Senator Yarborough. Mr. SPECTER. Was Vice President Johnson seated on the right side or the left side of the rear seat? Mr. KELLERMAN. On the right side, sir. Mr. SPECTER. Were there jump seats in the Vice President's car? Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir. Mr. SPECTER. Do you know the identity of the driver of the Vice President's car? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER. Who was that? Mr. KELLERMAN. That was Mr. Hurchel Jacks. He is a Dallas police officer. Mr. SPECTER. Might he be a Texas State police officer? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; you are right. Mr. SPECTER. Do you know the identity of all of the individuals in the Vice President's followup car? Mr. KELLERMAN. Not the driver. The agents, yes. Mr. SPECTER. Who were they, sir? Mr. KELLERMAN. Special Agent Thomas L. Johns, Special Agent Warren Taylor, and I believe that is all. Mr. SPECTER. Are you able to indicate their precise positions? Mr. KELLERMAN. No, no. Mr. SPECTER. Now, what car, if you know, followed the Vice President's followup car? Mr. KELLERMAN. That was car--as an example, car No. 1, which would be a congressional car; the occupants I do not know at the present time. Mr. SPECTER. And behind that car, describe in a general way the balance of the motorcade, if you will, please. Mr. KELLERMAN. All right. The balance of the motorcade, the back of that car No. 1 which would be the congressional people would be two press cars, one covering the wire people, and one would be the photographic group. Then you would have a series of guest cars, and then a press bus. And then a police car followup, bringing up the entire motorcade.