Mr. WILLIAMS. As I remember, I first said I wasn't sure. After the fellows said they brought the west elevator up, I said I must have the east elevator. Mr. BALL. Is it fair to say now that you don't have any definite memory as to whether it was the east or west elevator? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I believe that would be true. Mr. BALL. But you did bring an elevator up? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; I did. Mr. BALL. Now, when you came down there and got off that elevator, did you notice that the other elevator was also on that floor? Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time I didn't notice it. Mr. BALL. Did you, later? Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir; as I remember. Mr. BALL. You don't remember? Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir; I don't remember. Mr. BALL. When you got off the elevator, you went over to the front of the building, the Elm Street side. Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; I did. Mr. BALL. And you saw Norman and---- Mr. DULLES. Mr. Ball, could we get the time element? Mr. BALL. I am going to bring that in. Mr. DULLES. All right. I will bide my time. Mr. BALL. You went over to the front of the building, did you? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes. Mr. BALL. And you saw your two friends, Norman and Jarman? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes. Mr. BALL. You had known them before? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Now, do you know what time that was? Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not know the exact time. Mr. BALL. It was---- Mr. WILLIAMS. It was after I had left the sixth floor, after I had eaten the chicken sandwich. I finished the chicken sandwich maybe 10 or 15 minutes after 12. I could say approximately what time it was. Mr. BALL. Approximately what time was it? Mr. WILLIAMS. Approximately 12:20, maybe. Mr. BALL. Well, now, when you talked to the FBI on the 23d day of November, you said that you went up to the sixth floor about 12 noon with your lunch, and you stayed only about 3 minutes, and seeing no one you came down to the fifth floor, using the stairs at the west end of the building. Now, do you think you stayed longer than 3 minutes up there? Mr. WILLIAMS. I am sure I stayed longer than 3 minutes. Mr. BALL. Do you remember telling the FBI you only stayed 3 minutes up there? Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not remember telling them I only stayed 3 minutes. Mr. BALL. And then on this 14th of January 1964, when you talked to Carter and Griffin, they reported that you told them you went down to the fifth floor around 12:05 p.m., and that around 12:30 p.m. you were watching the Presidential parade. Now, do you remember telling them you went down there about 12:05 p.m.? Mr. WILLIAMS. I remember telling the fellows that--they asked me first, they said, "How long did it take you to finish the sandwich?" I said, "Maybe 5 to 10 minutes, maybe 15 minutes." Just like I said here. I don't remember saying for a definite answer that it was 5 minutes. Mr. BALL. Well, is it fair to say that you do not remember the exact time now? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.